what do you feel?

[Kane]

Still no numbers. Tell me how many calories you eat a day and how many grams of protein. or at least what food you ate for a certain day.

You didn't even mention pre/post workout nutrition.

You're doing a split! and you didn't even mention any changes in physical appearance.

If you want my help you gotta give me answers to my questions...

[hrdgain81]

Originally Posted by chips53

Well it varies.

I have 6 meals a day sometimes 7, high protein, moderate carbs, low fat. The carbs I take in are longer acting carbs, like sweet potatos. I have 2-4 shakes a day.

I train 3-4 times a week and do cardio between.

Mon-back and shoulders
Wed-chest and arms
Sat- Legs
I do abs twice a week

Back
Pull downs 3 X 6-12 (pending on weight and weekly routine sometimes more reps for cutting)
Dumbell rows 3 X 12
High row Machine -or- normal row machine 3 X 6-12
Laterall raises 3 X 10
Shoulder presses 3 X 10
Bent over rear delt raises 3 X 15
Shrugs 3 X 15-20

This week I have been doing those all with 4 sets, slightly lighter weight and punching out 5-10 more reps each set, just switching it up.

Chest and Arms
Flat bench 3 X 6-10
Incline dumbell 3 X 12
Flys 3 X 12
Skull chrushers 3 X 12 with tricep bench style lift after each set for 5 reps
Tri push downs 3 X 10
Tri Extensions 3X 10-12
Barbell bicep curls 3 X 12
Preacher or reverse curl right now 3 X 10
Not sure the name of the machine but it has the extended handles and I usually do three sets and the last one a drop set

Legs
Calf raises 3 X 12
Donkey raises 3 X 15
Let extensions 3 X 8-10
Leg press or squats 3 or 4 sets by 10 X 15
Leg curls 3 X 12

Abs I use the twisting machine
a crunch machine that you use legs with
Then leg raises

Some stats

Flat bench 235lbs for 5
Incline dumbell 90lbs for 8

Squat 440 X 6 used to do 350 for 25-30 reps in highschool for football
Leg press about 950lbs for 8

Dumbell row 130's for 12-15



I do dead lift once in a while for a couple weeks at a time to shock new muscles
I was doing 350 last time

I feel I am moderately strong with some areas and lack in others, but its ok I am working on it. Im not looking to gain strength, just size and quality, that will always be my goal.

I want winni for lean mass, clen for fat loss (not fat really, but I know it helps reduce catatonic states and promotes light growth) and dbol at just 25mg a day. I dont want to use a lot of dbol so I dont bloat. Arnold and the old pros from what I heard only took 15-25mg a day. I have friends who have done dbol at both 25 and double, I feel the one who took 25 looked far better than 50, though he wasnt as big, but was deffinately not super puffy.

this routine would be my first guess as to why your not gaining. I see 3 sets of 10, and 3 sets of 12 everywhere in there, thats not a mass/strength program. All this bi, tri, isolation work is counter productive, you dont need all that crap, your overworking your smaller muscle groups, and its holding back the larger ones.

I'd suggest a 5x5 (either Bill Starrs which I personally love, or the Rippetoe version everyone else seems to like) concentrate on the big 3 lifts, and up your cals slightly.

You also seem set on adding mass and cutting bf at the same time. It is one of the hardest things to do, and you will frustrate the hell out of yourself trying. Just pack on quality mass for a few months, then slim up afterward, trust me its the way to go.

[chips53]

Originally Posted by Kane

Still no numbers. Tell me how many calories you eat a day and how many grams of protein. or at least what food you ate for a certain day.

You didn't even mention pre/post workout nutrition.

You're doing a split! and you didn't even mention any changes in physical appearance.

If you want my help you gotta give me answers to my questions...

I seriously am sorry for not writing that, I was in a hurry and basically didnt see all that, but I am getting ready to take a Business Law test. I will for sure write it down today after the test and work out.

As for my work out scheme, thats just what I am doing for 3 weeks, Ive done the 5 X 5 or a 4 X 6 workout setup, and they do work good for sure, I do those far more than the work out I am doing now. Im glad you guys are talking to me though and to be honest I dont think any one is being a prick. Its all constructive critisim, keep it coming really. Physical appearance, Im getting more cuts in my shoulders and back. Not noticing any size change, but Ive been taking in less calories this week, just this week and a little of last week to see what I could do and Im toning up and leaning out well. But I am just afraid to go hog wild all the time because I cant always fit cardio into my schedule right now between school work and frat life, lots of stress but its all worth it. This summer for sure Ill be able to do it all and do it with ease!

Nonetheless, Ill have my typical diet posted between 1:30 and 3pm?

[Kane]

Constantly switching your routine could be a major problem. Muscle growth comes with time and consistency. I'm not sure what your time frame is for a certain program, but your timeframe should depend on your progression. Your timeframe for a routine doesn't depend on time at all. If you're progressing in your lifts, then guess what, you've created muscle growth. Once you stall after X amounts of months THEN you think about ways to continue progression. A flip-flop approach to training with the idea of shocking your muscles isn't a good way of doing things IMO. Even with HST it relies on reps starting off high and slowly tapering down over a period of months, not doing a 15RM period then an 8-10 then back to a 15 and then down to a 6-8. IMO you're training should alwasy tailor to increasing the loading, which means going from higher reps to lower reps when using 'blocks' of differing set/rep ranges, not simply just having 'blocks' of different schemes.

I'll be back on later to read your reply, those are just my initial thoughts on what you posted.

[chips53]

Ok Im not 100% on the numbers for carbs and fat for the food that I eat, so if they are off let me know.

Upon wake-up
Protein shake-40-50 grams whey with glutamine
Multi Vitamin
Oatmeal

-OR IF TIME PERMITS-
6 egg omlet with pepers and throw some turkey ( 1/2 oz?)
Oatmeal
Orange juice and a glass of Gatorade

Mid morning
20g-28g Protein shake w/ real organic peanut butter (Tastes great with my flavor of power)
or just a protein bar if in class

Lunch
Two 4-6oz chicken breast
Salad consisting of spinach leafs and I put black olives and tomatos on it with a raspberry vinegarette dressing
Large sweet potato
A small bowl of cottage cheese and some fruit like mandarin oranges or pineapple

Mid day snack
Can of tuna and some flavored rice cakes
small salad again

Dinner
Chicken or Steak pending on what the dining commons are serving
Usually try to get 12 oz or so of either
salad
a penne noodle pasta with just meat style sauce?
Some apple sauce or yogurt


Later in the evening Ill drink a shake or get some cottage cheese or yogurt unless I am really starving. If thats the case I usually hand make thin crust pizza with lowfat mozzarella cheese, pizza sauce, throw some diced roma tomatos and sliced black olives.

I take about 100mg of Zinc before bed
2000mg of L-arginine as well

upon waking I take the multi vitamin I said and usuaully 2-3g of l-arginine

I take vitamin B12 (1000mcg) either in the morning or lunch, its time released as well.




As for training, im doing the reps the past weeks cause I leveled off in my rows, bench, and curls for about a month or so so I thought I'd switch it up.

But critique away Im fine with it!!!

[chips53]

I guess you decided not to respond to what you asked of me?

[Kane]

Originally Posted by chips53

I guess you decided not to respond to what you asked of me?

Hey, I don't just live on this site for your benefit. I have been really busy lately and this has been one of the few times I have had a chance to read posts let alone critique a diet.


Just glancing at your diet, I roughly got around 200grams of protein. I forgot to mention earlier that fitday.com has all the values for food, you enter the food and it tells you the macro's in it. Anyway, I'm guessing your metabolism is pretty high, but I seriously doubt that 200 is enough. Even if it was 225, I'd say you'd need more. Carbs are almost non existent, you have pasta there but other than that I didn't see too many carbs. You should have an equal amount of carbs and protein. Since you're eating from a dining commons I'll assume you're getting more than enough fat in your diet .

Here's my 2 cents:
Increase protein/carbs to around 225-250g (maybe even 300 for carbs) and re-evaluate your progress. If you're metabolism is really high then this might not even be enough for you, you might need 300+ protein and 400+ carbs. Diet is largely trial and error until you zero in on your "ideal" macros.

I just glanced at your diet and guesstimated the protein based on my judgement, so its possible I undershot or overshot it.

[Darkhorse]

At 185 lbs, you should be shooting for around 3500 calories consumed per day. Basically multiply your bodyweight by 18-20 calories.

-> Offhand, you're eating roughly 1,840 grams using the high end numbers.

Protein: 278-370 grams of protein per day (185 x 1.5-2.0 grams of protein per day)

-> You're at about 190-220 per day estimated

Carbohydrates: Around 250-300 grams of carbs per day.. Training days could have more carbs than nontraining days obviously. Keep them low GI unless around postworkout.

-> You're at about 150 grams per day estimated.

Fats: 100-120 grams per day

-> You're at about 30-40 grams per day estimated.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Those are rough estimates of what you need per day. There's so many "X" factor's I haven't accounted for because I don't know anything about you. You could have maybe more fats than carbs, or whatever. I'm not saying to eat a pizza or two to make up the difference in carbs or to drink a gallon of whole milk either. Food selections could be as simple as eating some whole grain pasta or brown rice, or buy a bottle of flax seed oil for fats. Olive oil could be used in your protein shakes as well. Every tbsp equals 12 grams fats.

You stated that you reached your genetic potential eating sparcely at best. While I understand people don't have 24 hour a day access to the refridgerator, there's many many ways to work around that. Prepare meals the night before, invest in MRP's instead of gear, ect! Noone gets naturally big without eating unless they're a genetic superfreak. When people here on the forums talk about how hard they work at the dinner table, they're not just bullshitting. It's a big fucking drain putting in the countless hours preparing and planning your meals. But it's really the only option you got.

Could you disregard everyone's advice and start your cycle? Absolutely. Life will go on in this forum. BUT, will you hit your goals in the opening post? Nope. Gear may be wonderful for those who use it (not speaking from experience), but it's not a cure-all to where you can ditch all the fundamentals and hard work that goes into nutrition and cruise your way up 20 extra pounds. You'd actually need to eat even MORE than you would being natural!

--

I submit that you try meeting the minimum requirements of your daily totals for a month before investing in steroids. Without getting your diet in order, you're only hurting yourself as well as your wallet. I spend so much money on groceries every week that the only supplements I CAN afford are a ten pound bag of protein and some CEE. Give it a try and see if you don't put on at least a few pounds.

And remember, this is a slow tedious process. BUT, something as minute as 2 lbs per month of lean muscle equals up to 24 pounds in a year!.. Rome wasn't built in a day, and even if they had access to the sickest steroids.. It would still take longer than a day!

[chips53]

I dont know if I stated this prior to my diet, but I was trying to lean out a little, because I felt that I was getting a bad case of the chub. But I need to increase the cardio really. I eat mixed nuts through out the day, or like the Germack diet delight, the one that has seeds nuts and some raisins. I also have juices throughout the day. I like the way you said it. I will start adding more protein to my shakes now as well. Throw some more peanut butter in as well, or bananas? Lol, I still want to surprise some guys I graduated with back at home when I come home for summer, I was the smallest of my friends, but I have already caught up to alot of them.

[TALO]

At 185lbs the chub that you talk about would be easily fixed with a good diet. You didn't have to cut the calories as much as the unhealthy food that you would have been eating to get it in the first place. Cardio would be a good idea. Also listen to Kane and 0311 and increase your calorie intake. It's the only way to grow. Espeically if you are going to start the gear, that is the time you need to eat more....I'm not saying to do it, but what you eat while on is just as if not more important....