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Magical Ketosis?

Fat Loss discussion on Magical Ketosis?, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Important post from Jamie Hale: http://www.maxcondition.com/e107_plu...topic.php?2104...


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Old 02-28-2009, 12:14 PM   #1
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Default Magical Ketosis?

Important post from Jamie Hale:

http://www.maxcondition.com/e107_plu...topic.php?2104
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:51 PM   #2
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No matter what diet, you need a deficit. Nothing complicated.

Edit: I'm not signed up over there to read it, but I DO know for me, and a lot of people I've associated with, that while a calorie is a calorie, I'm totally on board with keto diets.. For me, it's a lot easier to set down black and white - Yes for this(FAT), No for that (CHO). I've dropped 6% in a month doing a keto so far, but not because of it being special, but because it leads to way higher energy for me. 6% really isn't anything special seeing as I started at 20% (FYI).

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Old 02-28-2009, 01:07 PM   #3
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Here's some extremely good posts from Alan Aragon regarding a lot of this:

http://www.clutchfitness.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8992
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
calorie is a calorie
So if you were to have 3000 calories at McDonald's that would be the same to you as haveing 3000 calories of chicken and rice ?

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Old 02-28-2009, 03:28 PM   #5
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Well, first of all, you need to understand the difference between a calorie packed helping of McDonalds vs. the PRO/CHO calorie content (4 : 1 gram) of chicken and rice. You could spend an afternoon at McDonalds, take in 3,000 calories, and guess what? You're done for the day as far as calories are concerned. Chicken and rice would be broken down into quite a few meals to equal the same content. BUT, if at the end of the day you burn a deficit, then pick your poison. Honestly, I know it's just an example you set, but I'd be more worried with catabolism from your power hour at Ronald's house vs. a steady supply of chicken and rice totalling 3,000 cals.

Deficit is a deficit. It doesn't matter where it comes from, at the end of the day, you're looking at the sum. And while actual nutrients and timing has small effects, it's still about a deficit.

Did you read the link?

My point is that it matters for dietary ADHERANCE, not because someone "needs" a balanced ratio, keto, ect. If someone told me I could eat only low GI carbs, I usually have dietary breakdowns sprinkled throughout the week whereas keto diets w/ the 60% fat intakes keeps me sustained and full for longer periods of time. Furthermore, the fat emphasis of a keto certainly aids in a much more sustainable calorie deficit given how it make you feel more satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Lyle McDonald (no pun intended!)
There is also a set of studies looking at changes comparing different diets to one another, using self-reported intakes to estimate caloric intake. While such studies frequently show differences in terms of weight loss, itís generally related to caloric intake: if a given diet causes people to reduce calories more than another (through whatever mechanism), those people lose weight.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:12 PM   #6
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It just so happens that Jamie Hale also just linked Practical Scientist Part 7 which is pretty much about the good calorie/bad calorie thing versus total calories. Very good read:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/node/528

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:25 PM   #7
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I couldn't open Eric's link and yours has over 5 pages of discussion . So no I didn't read it. I will when I get some more time ( like that's possible, LOL !)

Your right it was just an example and it may not be the best example.

When it comes to calories ( A calorie is a unit of energy.) It all depends on not how many your taking in ( Yes , I agree that you must eat at a deficit to lose weight ) but what your body does with those calories. So 1500 cals of fat is not going to be the same as 1500 cals of carbs or protein or whatever...

So the time of day (pre/post workout , morning , night ...etc) plays a bigger part in what you should eat . Like post workout you need to replenish your glycogen levels and carbs ( frutose/glucose) is the best thing for that. Not saying that it can't be done on a very stricked keto ( with fat and protein ) but harder , IMO.

hard for me to put into words what I want to say , but I know I've read it before so give me some time to pluck it

Basically I don't think a calorie is just a calorie.

There are also :

Quote:
Empty Calories
Saying something has empty calories is like calling a calorie shallow. It’s a term for saying
you have nothing to offer of any nutrient value. This usually refers to foods that are
overly -processed and have high sugar and chemical properties.

Negative Calories
This refers to food items that are believed to take more energy to be broken down by the
body than the energy in which they contain themselves. For example cucumbers are
considered a negative calorie food because a serving of cucumbers only holds roughly 5
calories, yet the energy it takes for your digestive function to process these 5 calories will
take more than 5 calories more worth of energy. This has yet to be proven in a study and
the whole concept is really annoying.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:43 PM   #8
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Eric : I have the book Good Cals / Bad Cals by Gary Taubes

and I should have it finished by now , but I fall asleep everytime I start to read it

AmazonAmazon
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TALO View Post
So if you were to have 3000 calories at McDonald's that would be the same to you as haveing 3000 calories of chicken and rice ?
You might feel like crap if you at 3,000 cals of McDonalds as opposed to chicken and rice.

If on a deficit, I find it more important than ever to eat quality calories (complex carbs, lean proteins, veggies) because I want to feel energetic through out the day, and perform well at the gym.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerj742 View Post
You might feel like crap if you at 3,000 cals of McDonalds as opposed to chicken and rice.

If on a deficit, I find it more important than ever to eat quality calories (complex carbs, lean proteins, veggies) because I want to feel energetic through out the day, and perform well at the gym.
Yes , you prob would feel like crap after only McDonalds and IMO , get fat even if you ate below maintaince. So a calorie is not just a calorie.

Do you think you would lose the same amount of weight eating whatever you wanted to eat as long as it was below maintaince ?

Quote:
If on a deficit, I find it more important than ever to eat quality calories
Even on a surplus you should eat quality calories . If your trying to min your fat while adding muscle it makes a big difference in what you put into your body.


But this is about Keto diets....And in all honesty I feel that a more balanced diet works best and is best for the body. Yes , Keto's work but IME the body gets a bit out of wack . My digestive system doesn't work half as good as when I have carbs in my diet. Now I do keep my carbs moderate to low and somedays I even go with none , but personally I can't stay on the NO carb for very long - Things just don't seem to run proper for me.
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