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SickOfIt 07-14-2006 12:25 PM

Need some suggestions..
 
Well this probably isn't a normal post but here goes..

I'm as fat as fat gets basically.. I'm 25 I weigh 365lbs I'm 6'3" my blood pressure, my attitude/everyday feelings are bad now. This fat has absolutely ruined me and to be honest I'm pretty scared of diabetes/heart disease and common sense indicates I may already have some warning signs of both.

I ride an exercise bike 30 minutes when I get up at 7:00am and I ride for 30 minutes at about 11:00pm. I've been doing this for about 2 weeks now and my weight hasn't changed but I think I feel little better. I've been doing 35lb curls 15 reps 6 sets each arm when I get off my bike and I do 240lb bench press 10 reps 6 sets (about 40 seconds rest in between).

Should I just cut calories to like 1000 avoid the junk food and keep riding my bike and doing my weights?

I don't want to drag my feet anymore and make excuses and I need weight off now and a lot of it or I might not be around much longer... So if anyone can suggest anything for my situation I'd really appreciate it.

tjlaplant 07-14-2006 12:44 PM

okay im not a doctor or anything but i gained 50 lbs of fat in 5 months of not doing anything. this is how i got my fat down a lot. and i did it all through the way i ate and how i exercised

Food
- Chew every bite 30 times. your stomach will think its getting full and youll get so sick of chewing so many damn times that youll want to...
-CUT YOUR PROPORTIONS to half the size of the usual. like lets say you like to have 4 pieces of pizza, only have 2 or 3... dont stop eating the foods you like, just eat less of it
-Throw in some healthy snacks... PB and J sandwhich, almonds, apple, orange... etc.
-Spice it up... if you like hot sauce then use a little on your food, fact or not... im pretty sure this also speeds up your metabolism.
-DRINK A GALLON OF WATER A DAY! water cleans out your system and youll feel way healthier too! also when you feel hungry drink water, it helps you to fill up.
-Eat every three hours... this will help to stop bedtime eating... eat at 7am then every 3 hours after that and do not eat after 7pm.

Exercise
- that i cant help you a whole lot on but i do know that this is a body building web site so the resources are unlimited!!!

I hope that some of this helps! it helped me and im doin fine!

verbatimreturned 07-14-2006 12:53 PM

It's a very popular question, so don't feel weird asking.

Check out Dr.X's sticky on "How to Cut" which will provide you will a tutorial on how to create a diet to lose weight. http://www.bodybuilding.net/fatloss-...-cut-1160.html

NEVER cut your calories that low, it would just be rediculous.

Doing arm curls and bench everyday wont be to much good either, your muscles need time to heal, and rest. That's the only way they will recover and eventually get bigger. I also believe you are going a little overkill on the cardio as well.

Once you've read over Dr.X's sticky put a diet together and then post it up for us to take a look at, everyone here would be more than happy to help you as long as your willing to put in the effort :)

phreaknite 08-22-2006 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verbatimreturned
I also believe you are going a little overkill on the cardio as well.

I hate to disagree with you verbatim, but 60 mins of cardio split up into two 30 minute blocks is not excessive at all for someone who is trying to lose weight. I applaude you SickOfIt for having the discipline to start such a routine and stick to it, which is the hardest part when you are just starting out.

Moving forward, putting together a diet can be tricky at first. I understand you are going through a big change now....obviously you didn't care about your health as much in the past and in the future u wish that to change. Don't go overboard by trying to do it ALL at once....thats how you discourage yourself when every goal can not be reached. Let the experiance of weight loss come to you and as it comes and becomes a lifestyle, you will see that you are learning more on your own.

Firsty, here is an important tidbit you should know. 3500 calories is equal to 1 pound of fat. If you deprive your body's metabolism of 3500 calories over the course of a week, you can determine how many calories you can cut to lose 1 pound of fat per week. It is possible to lose 2 pounds of fat a week healthily, if you are extremely overweight and your metabolic needs are very high. That means over the course of 1 week you deprive your metabolism of 7000 calories. In order to do this, you must calculate your metabolic rates.

Sometimes, thumbing through these forums and sticky posts can be difficult. I have a wealth of information in my head I would be willing to discuss with you one on one if you want to discuss it over AIM, MSN or even in private messages. (AIM = phreaknite, MSN = phreaknite@hotmail.com)

I would also have some resources available for you to read.

Its important that you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Many people say things like "cut your carbs" and the recipient takes that the wrong way and stops eating all carbs including fruits and vegetables...

An example of this is the hot sauce claim that hot sauce speeds up your metabolism or that PB&J is a healthy snack. Both are untrue (no offense intended, tjlaplant)


I would be happy to educate you further.

verbatimreturned 08-22-2006 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phreaknite
I understand you are going through a big change now....obviously you didn't care about your health as much in the past and in the future u wish that to change. Don't go overboard by trying to do it ALL at once....thats how you discourage yourself when every goal can not be reached. Let the experiance of weight loss come to you and as it comes and becomes a lifestyle, you will see that you are learning more on your own.

Starting off with 60 minutes of cardio a day isn't going overboard? I have to disagree with you on this one, Sickofit is very motivated, but he also mentioned that he is concerned for his health and when one is concerned about their health to the point in which they think they are in danger of developing things mentioned below,I don't think starting off with cardio to that extent is a wise choice, I would advise you to focus more on diet and take it easy with the cardio until you get a little bit lighter, perhaps get an ok from a doctor if you think things are that bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickOfIt
This fat has absolutely ruined me and to be honest I'm pretty scared of diabetes/heart disease and common sense indicates I may already have some warning signs of both.

If 60 minutes isn't that much cardio what are we going to do when he platues as far as losing weight? add 15 minutes? that would be an insane amount of cardio on a daily basis. Combine that with weight lifting and I see overtraining. I've dieting several times in the past and I've never done anything over 30 minutes a day (and no not HIIT), I personally hate cardio, I make sure my diet is in order and the weight falls off. Plus I have no problem conserving the muscle I've worked so hard to develope

verbatimreturned 08-22-2006 06:55 PM

capsaicin: colorless pungent crystalline compound derived from capsicum; source of the hotness of hot peppers of the genus Capsicum such as chili and cayenne and jalapeno

Quote:

Effect of capsaicin on substrate oxidation and weight maintenance after modest body-weight loss in human subjects.

Lejeune MP, Kovacs EM, Westerterp-Plantenga MS.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, NL-6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. M.Lejeune@HB.UNIMAAS.NL

The aim of the present study was to investigate whether capsaicin assists weight maintenance by limiting weight regain after weight loss of 5 to 10 %. In this randomized double-blind placebo-controlled study, ninety-one moderately overweight subjects were randomly assigned to an intensive group that underwent all the measurements, and an extensive group that underwent the same measurements except the metabolism measurements. After a 4-week very-low-energy diet (VLED) intervention, a 3-month weight-maintenance period followed. During weight maintenance, subjects were divided into a capsaicin (135 mg capsaicin/d) and a placebo group. Body mass was measured before and after the VLED and after 1, 2 and 3 months of weight maintenance. The mean body-mass loss during the VLED was 6.6 (SD 2.0) kg (7.8 (SD 1.8) % initial body mass), and was not different between the subsequent treatment and placebo group. During weight maintenance, mean % regain during treatment was not significantly different compared with placebo (33.3 (SD 35.7) v. 19.2 (SD 41.8) %, P=0.09). RQ was significantly less increased during weight maintenance in the treatment group compared with placebo (0.04 (SD 0.06) v. 0.07 (SD 0.05), P<0.05), indicating a relatively more sustained fat oxidation. Fat oxidation (g/h) after weight maintenance was higher in the capsaicin group compared with placebo (4.2 (SD 1.1) v. 3.5 (SD 0.9), P<0.05). These results indicate that capsaicin treatment caused sustained fat oxidation during weight maintenance compared with placebo. However, capsaicin treatment has no limiting effect on 3-month weight regain after modest weight loss.
So hott sauce can be affective....to a certaint degree

EricT 08-23-2006 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phreaknite
I have a wealth of information in my head I would be willing to discuss with you one on one if you want to discuss it over AIM, MSN or even in private messages. (AIM = phreaknite, MSN = phreaknite@hotmail.com)

I noticed you do that a lot. No offence but if your info is so good then why don't you share it with the forum? Also, be careful of taking everything that applies to you and extrapolating that to the general population. Lots of people succesfully lose weight but until you've actually worked with many, many people and have learned to tailor things to what works for different individuals then it's not appropriate to set yourself up as an "expert".

It's similar to when a skinny guy gains 50 pounds of muscle and then immediately writes and e-book that's gonna "revolutionize" muscle gain. By that qualification I and many others here should be writing books....I'm not doubting what you've learned as much as wondering why you're trying to lure people away from the forum when there are knowledgable people here as well.

For most that are extremely overweight the initial pounds are going to melt off. However, what they do at first can determine how quickly they hit that weightloss "plateau" that verb spoke of. I too think that starting at 60 minutels a day may be excessive. One thing to keep in mind is that the number one effect of solid state "cardio" is to increase metabolic efficiency. Yes you burn some fat while doing it but over time you will burn less fat doing the same activity so the only anwer would be to "do more" as verb eluded to. Which would be ridiculous unless you're training for a marathon. Not to mention that lean mass is going to go to resulting in and unhealthy weight loss with a less than optimal appearance at the end. One of the causes of what seems like "saggy skin" is loss of lean mass along with fat loss. A proper weight training plan is in order although it may be beneficial to wait until a little more weight comes off.

phreaknite 08-23-2006 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreaknite
I have a wealth of information in my head I would be willing to discuss with you one on one if you want to discuss it over AIM, MSN or even in private messages. (AIM = phreaknite, MSN = phreaknite@hotmail.com)

I noticed you do that a lot. No offence but if your info is so good then why don't you share it with the forum? Also, be careful of taking everything that applies to you and extrapolating that to the general population. Lots of people succesfully lose weight but until you've actually worked with many, many people and have learned to tailor things to what works for different individuals then it's not appropriate to set yourself up as an "expert".

The reason is because i type up a lot and a lot of stuff and would rather not get long winded and boring for peopole so i figured I would be on a 1 on 1 basis to be more helpful. I did it once and it worked out, so i did it again......i won't do it again to protect the spirit of the forum.

I respect your criticism of me and I will refrain from giving advice short handedly or not stating my whole case again. It appears when I do, I anger other people here and other people think my claims are not founded on experiance or research. To me this is a place to learn and to teach what I have learned. I would rather not get that confused with anything else and have us all learn from each other and I apologize if my presentation or information has made it seemed like I thought of myself as an "expert" because I have told you before I have much to learn.....but that doesn't mean I havent learned more than people such as SickOfIt and that I can not try to help and motivate him.

Now, let me just rebutt some of your rebuttals, so we learn from each other.

Here is a quote from the University of Maryland Medical Center's website.
Quote:

Originally Posted by University Of Maryland Medical Center
Weight loss

Capsaicin is also considered a thermogenic substance, which means that it allows you to burn more calories from food, particularly when eating a high fat meal. For this reason, some weight loss supplements contain capsaicin. There are no studies examining the safety and effectiveness of capsaicin for helping people lose weight, however.

Here is another quote from Barbara J. Moore, PhD
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbara J. Moore, PhD
-- Metabolism Accelerators -- Calorie Wasting Supplements

(Krebs Cycle, Mitochondriacs, Fat transporters, glucose transporters, thyroid hormone stimulators, etc.)
A number of dietary supplements claim to waste calories by speeding up your metabolism in a variety of different ways. Some claim to stimulate your thyroid gland and increase production of active thyroid hormones. An example is Tiratricol which is a substance the FDA considers dangerous and is taking steps to remove from the market. Other dietary supplements claim to have a stimulating effect on the selective uptake and burning of glucose by muscle which they claim helps weight control by wasting calories while building muscle. Garcinia Cambogia (also known as Brindleberry) and Chromium picolinate (and other chromium supplements) are examples of this type. Others, like Capsicum or Capsaicin, claim to have a specific effect on heat production, which is a calorie wasting process. Still others like Pyruvate and the Ephedra compounds discussed above claim to have a general effect as a metabolism accelerator or calorie waster. The general criticism of these compounds is that they are not well studied from the standpoint of either effectiveness or safety. As discussed above, the Ephedra compounds are clearly unsafe. There are also disturbing reports about the safety of chromium supplements suggesting they may have a damaging effect on the genetic material inside cells. Shape Up America! advises against the use of any of these compounds for weight loss or any other purpose.

Here is another quote from the Medical Journal of Austrailia
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medical Journal of Austrailia
Abstract Objectives: To review the evidence for the effectiveness of popular, non-prescription weight loss supplements.
Data sources: A detailed literature search including all relevant medical and supplementary medicine databases and evidence submitted from manufacturers.
Data synthesis: The theoretical basis and rationale for the use of each substance is considered along with available research in the published literature on effectiveness and potential risks. We classified the level of evidence represented by the main research studies on each substance.
Conclusions: There is no good evidence for any weight loss benefits from most of the substances reviewed here. There is some support for mild effects of capsaicin, caffeine and fibre, but only in whole foods. In some cases (eg, chitosan), there is a plausible theoretical basis for the product, but no supporting proof of effect in humans in the absence of a calorie-controlled diet. Possible synergistic effects of different ingredients cannot be dismissed, but cannot be assessed from current data. There is an absence of good quality research on many substances, which means that advertising claims may be misleading.

So yes, while you have found studies that capsaicin does help with weight loss, my research also has shown me that it does not due to the fact that there is not suffient data from the existing studies to properly say that Capsaicin DOES in fact help with weight loss. Sure there is no harm in trying it, but it was stated saying "fact or not, put some on your food". I was just saying that there is not enough suffient data for it to be considered "Fact" at this point. However, it does appear that over the past few years, more data is being produced to support this claim, but there are a few in the medical field who are hesitant to agree with the claim. Since you brought it to my attention, I have been looking more into it and there is definitely much work being put into these studies (probably because they are in so many weight loss "magic pills"). I apologize if that seemed like an unwarrented attack or flame.

As for this...
Quote:

Originally Posted by tjlaplant
-Throw in some healthy snacks... PB and J sandwhich, almonds, apple, orange... etc

Just to defend my point that PB&J is not a healthy snack...
REDUCTED FATPeanut Butter
Serving Size: 2 Tbsp (36g)
Calories: 190
Calories from Fat: 110
Total Fat: 12 g
---Sat Fat: 2.5 g
Total Carb: 15 g
---Sugars: 4 g
Protein: 8 g

Concord Grape Jelly
Serving Size: 1 Tbsp (20g)
Calories: 50
Calories from Fat: 0
Total Fat: 0 g
---Sat Fat: 0 g
Total Carb: 13 g
---Sugars: 10 g
Protein: 0 g

Whole Wheat Bread
Serving Size: 1 slice (28g)
Calories: 70
Calories from Fat: 10
Total Fat: 1 g
---Sat Fat: 0 g
Total Carb: 13 g
---Sugars: 2 g
Protein: 3 g

Ok.....so If you make a SMALL modest PB&J Sandwhich, with 1 Tbsp of Reduced fat Peanut Butter (half a serving), 1 Tbsp of Concord Grape Jelly, and 2 Slices of Whole Wheat bread, then this is the stats you are looking at..

PB&J Sandwhich
Serving Size: 1 Sandwhich as described above
Calories: 285
Calories from Fat: 75
Total Fat: 8 g
---Sat Fat: 2.5 g
Total Carb: 46.5 g
---Sugars: 16 g
Protein: 10 g

So even with reduced fat peanut butter, a PB&J sandwhich on whole wheat bread contains 25% of its total calories from fat. This MIGHT be good as part of a meal (or a whole meal, depending on how much you are cutting calories) but definitely not as a snack. In addition to that, 60% of this meals calories is attributed to Carbs. Even according to the post "How to Cut" posted by Dr. X, this would already be 35% of the daily carb intake recommended there...in one snack.

My advice, if you want to snack, stick to fresh fruits and vegetables. While you are just starting out, to make sure not to overwhelm yourself, stick to things you enjoy. As you get more into the routine, make the switch from some fresh fruits and vegetables that you enjoy towards fruits and vegetables such as grapefruits, pineapples, oranges, spinach, etc.

If any of this can be deemed as incorrect please let me know.....but this is the precise reason why I said to just contact me on AIM since when I get going with a point ot prove.....I can be very verbose.

Once again, sorry about any offense I have caused or confusion I might have created.

verbatimreturned 08-23-2006 08:41 AM

Thats alot of research much respect for that one^ my personal opinion on the whole thing is if theres a small chance of it helping me out why not splash on some tabasco sauce anyways lol its dirt cheap, and I know that if I put on a shit load of crushed red pepper on my pasta and stuff I sweat from eating it as opposed to not sweating from just eating plain pasta...doesn't really mean much since there are so many variables that can change this but I say go for it anyways. As far as the peanut butter and jelly sandwhich, well obviously thats not good for cutting lol

If you want to snack then just wait for your next meal there should only be a very slim amount of time between them anyway 2-3 hours.

No offense taking phreaknite

EricT 08-23-2006 09:00 AM

No anger and no offence, I assure you. As you said I am only speaking to the "spirit of the forum". Nothing wrong with contacting people privately at all...it's just that it would be nice to share some with the rest of the forum so that others can benefit or help. I can understand your desire not to be too verbose since I tend to do the same thing. I make an effort to be concise but personally I would rather see a wordy person who is really trying to help instead of someone who inserts a one liner just to get his post counts up! But back to the thread...

Pesonally, I love hot sauce on my food. But I actually use it to stimulate and increase my appetite and it seems to do just that. Similar to bitter foods and herbs.

On the peanut butter and this whole "reduced fat" thing. Have you not noticed that in processed foods reduced fat means more added sugar?

Look at natty pb:

Calories: 180
Calories from fat 140 (12% from sat fat as opposed to 24%)

Fat: 15g (only 2.5 sat fat) as opposed to 12g (with 2.5 g sat)...
The reduced fat has INCREASED the % of saturated fat?

Carbs:
6 g (1g sugars0 as opposed to 15g (with 4g sugar)
This is self explanatory.

Protein:
7 g

Leaving out the jelly and bread part of it and just speaking of NATTY peanut butter: Is it a HEALTHY snack? I'd say hell yes and most nutritionists would agree provided you have no peanut allergies. Whether it fits into a diet is up to the individual but I don't think a serving of pb in itself would be a bad idea as long as it didn't tip the calorie scale. You get a very low GI, you get protein, you get healthy fats...as far as the pb&j goes I certainly agree.


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