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Strength-Endurance program ... for the MMAist in me

MMA discussion on Strength-Endurance program ... for the MMAist in me, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Could I get any West Side people to give some input about WS and if they think it would work ...


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Old 11-15-2006, 08:45 PM   #21
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Could I get any West Side people to give some input about WS and if they think it would work with this dynamic?
Well, conjugate powerlifting is just that -> Powerlifting = Increasing your squat, bench, and deadlift. That's all the system is designed for. It's done by incorperating speed, maximal, and repetition days. After the ME or DE lift, the rest of the workout for that day is focused around increasing your supplemental muscles work capacity to synergistically increase your BIG THREE.

Now, that being said, do I think you can take the conjugate system for the use of MMA workouts?. No. BUT, I think you can take certain ASPECTS of the system and incorperate it into what you're trying to figure out.

For example, you could pick 2-3 variations of each of the big three, and keep rotating them every 1-2 weeks. That could work. I think using the ME days would prove to be a great benefit for MMA.

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Phase 3: Functional Phase II (Strength-speed) Strength endurance
Phase 4: Functional Phase III (Speed-strength) complexes and plyo
Now, the ME days IMO would fit somewhere in here. Not that you'd be getting a massive strength increase due to strength endurance-specific and complexes workouts, but you'll know that at least TWO workouts a week are devoted to raw gritty strength. The other two you can do what you want.

It's important to also note that I don't think you'll have any real benefit from doing a 1 RM with the ME days... You should work up to a top set of 5, sometimes 3 REP MAX on the ME exercise. With all the variations worked in there, you should NOT stall out on any exercise through both these phases.

ME BENCH VARIANTS:

- Floor Press
- Wide Grip Pause Press (2 second pause)
- Incline or Close Grip Press

ME SQUAT VARIANTS:

- Box Squat
- OLY Squat
- Front Squat

ME DEADLIFT VARIANTS:

- Platform Deadlifts
- Rack Deadlifts
- SLDL or Conventional Deads (Don't necessarily need a variant IMO)

The rest of the workouts are NOT to failure, in most cases sets of 10 reps per set. The supplemental exercises SHOULD be rotated out every 3 weeks or so.

For a great template to look through, I recommend the one written by Matt Reynolds, Beginner Powerlifting Program

For ME BENCH work, a great writeup that goes into detail about the Conjugate System is also by Matt. I got permission from him to post it up as it was taken down some time ago. How to Increase your RAW Bench Conjugate Style

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Old 11-17-2006, 07:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 0311
Well, conjugate powerlifting is just that -> Powerlifting = Increasing your squat, bench, and deadlift. That's all the system is designed for. It's done by incorperating speed, maximal, and repetition days. After the ME or DE lift, the rest of the workout for that day is focused around increasing your supplemental muscles work capacity to synergistically increase your BIG THREE.

Now, that being said, do I think you can take the conjugate system for the use of MMA workouts?. No. BUT, I think you can take certain ASPECTS of the system and incorperate it into what you're trying to figure out.

For example, you could pick 2-3 variations of each of the big three, and keep rotating them every 1-2 weeks. That could work. I think using the ME days would prove to be a great benefit for MMA.



It's important to also note that I don't think you'll have any real benefit from doing a 1 RM with the ME days... You should work up to a top set of 5, sometimes 3 REP MAX on the ME exercise. With all the variations worked in there, you should NOT stall out on any exercise through both these phases.

ME BENCH VARIANTS:

- Floor Press
- Wide Grip Pause Press (2 second pause)
- Incline or Close Grip Press

ME SQUAT VARIANTS:

- Box Squat
- OLY Squat
- Front Squat

ME DEADLIFT VARIANTS:

- Platform Deadlifts
- Rack Deadlifts
- SLDL or Conventional Deads (Don't necessarily need a variant IMO)

The rest of the workouts are NOT to failure, in most cases sets of 10 reps per set. The supplemental exercises SHOULD be rotated out every 3 weeks or so.

This, if I'm interpreteing this right, almost seems like using DF 5x5 but with variants of the big three.

So.
Week 1: DF 5x5 variants
Week 2: DF 3x3 Varians

Is this what you're saying?

Then:
Week 3: Strength Endurance
Week 4: Complexes and Plyo
Week 5: Active Recovery/Structural Phase II (something similar what they have with light deload / DE day)

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Old 11-18-2006, 09:33 AM   #23
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No.

Leave dual factor 5x5 alone as it is. Go through exactly as written. It doesn't get better than that.

But, I'm saying for phases III and IV to leave two workouts for ME work (conjugate with the rotating max effort lifts), and the other two workouts per week are for what you have already planned.. ie strength endurances, complexes, and/or pylos.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:26 AM   #24
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Ok, after talking with Dave for some time in the shoutbox, here's what we got:

Option 1:

- 2 weeks dual factor 5x5 (volume)
- 2 weeks dual factor 3x3 (intensity)
- 2 weeks SE
- 2 weeks complexes/pylos
- 1 week deload
* reset

** Essentially we'll have 4 weeks strength-specific, 4 weeks MMA-specific training phases. The goal of the 4 weeks of dual factor is to MAINTAIN strength by inputting heavy weights that are managable, and not hitting new PR's. This is because of all the MMA training and cardio performed throughout these weeks.

Option 2:

- 2 weeks dual factor 5x5 (volume)
- 2 weeks dual factor 3x3 (intensity)
- 2 weeks SE; 2 SE workouts, 2 Max Effort workouts per week
- 2 weeks complexes/pylos; 2 CO/PY workouts, 2 ME per week
- 1 week deload
* reset

** With this one, same applies to the first 4 weeks of strength-specific training as described above. With this example, instead of 4 weeks strictly MMA-specific, we'll have 2 workouts per week devoted to maintaining/increasing strength. Nothing high volume, just working up to a 1-5 RM, then the rest of the workout spend on weight training with NOTHING TO FAILURE.

*** Also with this example, the rotating ME lifts would apply. Perhaps picking 2 upper, 2 lower ME's so those exercises will be hit twice.

Option 3:

- 2 weeks dual factor 5x5 (volume)
- 2 weeks dual factor 3x3 (intensity)
- 2 weeks SE; Only final week incorperating 2 ME workouts
- 2 weeks complexes/pylos; Final week incorperating 2 ME workouts
- 1 week deload
* reset

** This option is different from option 2 because instead of incorperating 2 Max Effort days for all 4 weeks of MMA-specific training, you'll only do the final week of each mesocycle with 2 ME workouts (1 upper, 1 lower). For this to work, you would NOT need to do a squat/deadlift/bench "variation" since it only accounts for 2 workouts (2 upper, 2 lower). It's optional, but not at all necessary. These two workouts would be added in just to ensure strength is at least maintained through the MMA training. The volume for both ME days would have to be lowered, and nothing taken to failure.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:43 AM   #25
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Thank you 0311. You put everything just as we talked about. I have one idea I was thinking of, as you were constructing these options.

Option 4:

- 2 weeks dual factor 5x5 (volume)
- 2 weeks dual factor 3x3 (intensity)
- 2 weeks SE;
- 2 weeks complexes/pylos; 2-3 CO/PY workouts, 2 ME per week
- 1 week deload
* reset


What I was thinking and looking back at some notes. Complexes are a very cardio intensive workout, just with weights and very low at that. So if anything this is where the ME days would be best utilized because the weight is sooo low as oppose to the SE days which are a lot more intense and require heavier weight. Now the complex /plyo workouts will also be used for kettle bell work, (it's on my X-mas list ), which I'll be using for some of the complexes and plyo workouts for recovery work, which I find to also be very beneficial for a replacement of DE days. Now I don't know if I can get a 3rd day of CO/PY so I'm just going to keep it to 2 until I actually try this out and see how I do. Oh, and as soon as I stop being lazy I'm going to make some sandbags and start using that too for the SE and CO workouts.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:49 AM   #26
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Looks great. Like I said, you know a lot more about MMA training than I pretend to. Powerlifting and bodybuilding is about the extent of what I know. Let me know what you decide! I'd also like to see which one Matt goes with..
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:55 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 0311
Let me know what you decide!
most definitely, a journal will come out of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
I'd also like to see which one Matt goes with..
I would also like to see what his opinion would be of this. If he sees this, let me know what he thinks.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:59 AM   #28
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I would also like to see what his opinion would be of this. If he sees this, let me know what he thinks.
Fuck that! His ass better post for the world to see.
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Old 11-18-2006, 11:00 AM   #29
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Fuck that! His ass better post for the world to see.
LOL.. can't wait.
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Old 11-19-2006, 10:39 AM   #30
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The only thing I would say is you may want to keep the length of the phases a little flexible. You may find you get into SE, for instance and you're a lot more detrained than you would think. You may need longer on a certain skill set in order to express it to the max. Obviously if you're getting ready for a comp you have a static time frame but in general blind adherence to some set length of cycles can be a detriment. Keeping in mind this of course:

ME can be done to the minumum on any phase just to retain skill...it doesn't always have to be setting records. Same thing with any other skill set. It's more complicated to set up that way of course.

Now this is the only other thing I wonder. I take it that MMA training will be done on your regular schedule during all this. But it seems to me one classic mistake that people make is to get caught up in strength, etc. and lose sight of what the purpose of all that is. Ideally, to me, the last phase of a training cycle would be basically more MMA specific training. Using all that strength and endurance and conditioning and putting it all into the max you can spend on actual skill training. Otherwise, you're always trying to express your martial arts skills to the max while training something else to the max. And you really can't. No matter what you think, something always gives. That training should have it's rightful place.

This may not be important now, but if you start to schedule your training around competitions it's something you should think about. If I was getting ready for a comp, I wouldn't want to have spent my last cycle of training lifting 3 days a weeks and doing MA 3 days a week when I could have been doing MA 6 days a week.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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