Strength-Endurance program ... for the MMAist in me
It all started when i got a PM from my good buddy Dave. He said here check this out I think you'll like it: Article Here
Dave was right, it peaked my interest. So I went to Lyle McDonalds forum to see what that crazy bastard thought about it (cause I respect his opinion highly) and here is what went down: thread Here Now personally I think all of this is extremely useful, and I am going to put together a strength-endurance program from all of this. But here i'd like to open it up to further discussion, and see what you guys think about it. The first thing I would put out there is something lyle said, that wasnt very pronounced, but I think is perhaps the largest draw back to this type of workout. Initial strength is going to be the limiting factor here. A program such as this will increase your strength endurance, but your 1 rep max is not going to change much. For that reason I think it would be best to cycle a S-E routine, with a strength building routine, perhaps at a 3 to 1 ratio. I also want to point out there isnt much room here for hypertrophy, so if bodybuilding is your goal, this aint got nothing for you. Personally I have no need for hypertrophy right now. I'm big enough, but there is always room to hit harder. My personal program to follow, that shit still needs tweeking. |
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I was also thinking about changing some things up and adding a type of Max effort day after 2 weeks or so of S-E. But I need to read up on WS a little more before venturing out on this part. |
Most definately, I also need to figure out how to work my diet to fit in with this. And what roll diffrent pre and post workout nutrition will play in this scenario ... should be fun.
I'm going to give the basic timed RP principal a try tonight, just to see how I like it. |
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I can't wait to see how you gear this. Let us know how it goes, especially because I've been wanting to do this program for a while. |
Well, that would work. Or, at least is would work in giving you lots of endruance for the weight work. Some of that strength endruance would spill over into MMA, BUT I don't think it's the ultimate of CONDITIONING. So if this is really about MMA my only thought would be not to put all your eggs in one basket.
I'm wondering what happened to "complexes"...the Alwyn Cosgrove article? Now the above is about working with as much weight as possible in any particular movement WHILE training strength endurance, rather than doing the whole high reps thing. In complexes you use one weight for an entire complex. So maybe not so good for maximal strength endurance. BUT the body tends to adapt in very specific ways to any demand put on it. One thing to always keep in mind is what actually goes on in the ring. Complexes, putting wieght aside, will more closely mimic the demands of the sport. So it's something I would consider using also. You don't do a movement for a little while, rest for 30 seconds, then repeat. Instead, you move your body throught many different planes and use many different dynamics. And this may be quite continuous. Your body has to be conditioned as a unit. I mean, you could stand up for a while where your moving around throwing punches, knees, kicks, whatever. Constants movement couple with ballistic, peak power movements. Then you could be on the ground where overal strength endurance of the entire body is necessary plus dynamic movements...this all going on continuously without a break for a lot longer than a low rep set. Yes, I agree that this type of strength endurance training will be very useful. And, sure you may get rest periods down to 20 secs or so. But 20 sec is a lot longer rest than you get in a round unless you plan on taking a knee. I'm not downing the idea. Like I said I think it will be useful. I'm only saying it has it's drawbacks. Also, I would think about choosing exercieses that more closely mimic the demands of the sport. I've noticed that the "sample routines" on stuff like this still pretty much look like what any weight trainer would choose except maybe with a clean and jerk or something. Again, SAID principal. And core strength has GOT to be the number on priority. Especially unilateral training, standing exercises, and exerices done on a unstable plane. Last time I checked you couldn't get your opponent to stand still in front of you while you liftted him up. |
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Yet again, I definitely see what your saying and agree with the different styles of training that would be generated for the Complexes and S-E. In that sense, just S-E does have drawbacks but most workout concentrate on one thing more than another, but now we are jumping into the realm of what a person's goals are and what they want to achieve. Quote:
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A couple of things here. eric, the problem I had with the complexes was that it didnt allow for use of optimal wieghts. From what i remember some of the movements were full range. So I would have to drop the wieghts inorder to complete the move. This would be the same problem I had with doing high reps.
The other thing I want to look at is Lyle's last post. He suggests completely seperating the high and low rep schemes like this Quote:
Eric, As for the sample movements in Wiggins article, I dont think that is even near the workout I will be doing. Give me some time to post up what I am thinking of doing, then critique me. I have a feeling its gonna look a lot diff then wiggins. |
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and I'm not taking it as you putting down the workout. I'm just trying to put my take on it too. But it seems that, in the end, we both agree on the results. And with the bench press example you give, I guess what I meant to say was if you build overall S-E or just strength, you can apply it when you train MA. For example, In my Judo class, I'm the strongest guy there, not boasting, I just am, and my overall strength helps me throw people easier. I guess it's like saying if you want bigger arms you should squat and do big complex movement along with some supplemental arm exercises. I don't know if that's a good analogy but My brain is a little dead from work right now. |
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And thinking about your point about supplementals. I've seen some weird results in studies that show JUST how specific the body can be. There was one utilizing EMG and MV something (mecancal vibration something or other) on trained and untrained subject doing olympic squats and weighted leg (knee) extensions. What was interesting is that while the subjects doing squats AND leg extensions got stronger in the squats, there was no increase in the leg extension. AND the quads got bigger. It's just that the CNS didn't become more effecient in the leg extension excercise. The bigger quads were just useless slabs of meat when it came to increasing strength in the extensions...as if the body pulled all it's resources into improving effeciency in the more demanding squat movement. You see what I'm saying? Stronger quads from squats did not seem to transfer to leg extensions at all, even though the same muscle group was utilized (yes, olympic squats are not all quads but it's in there). I think what I'm saying comes down to a statement by James Smith: "Fighters are best served by thinking in terms of training movements, as opposed to training muscles." |
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