Dairy = Soft Look?

[phreaknite]

Originally Posted by Dr X

Q: What about dairy?
A: If you don’t mind a soft look, fat free cottage cheese is an excellent caseinate source, but as for milks- way too much sugar. NO.

This was posted in the thread "How to Cut" on the Fatloss Forum. This little tidbit was also mentioned in Franco Columbu's book on nutrition "The Bodybuilders Nutrition Guide" and I had just assumed that was because the book was 20 years old and nonfat dairy products such as yogurts were not wide spread.

If the dairy product is made with 0% milkfat, such as cottage cheese, Skim Milk or nonfat yogurt, then what is the harm? There's no fat, so why does it lead to a "soft" look? I have been drinking skim milk with my cereal and living off of yogurts as snacks for months, and my Abs have still shown through over time and my 6 pack became more pronounced. Would my results have been greater without milk? If so, what makes dairy products so bad that they are caught in this stigma of leading to a "soft look"?

[Eric3237]

Milk has a lot of calories. You drink a lot of it and of course it could tip the balance. But everyone has to go to extremes on stuff.

The dairy council says low fat milk helps you lose weight. Other people say don't touch it cuz it'll make you fat. It's all a little ridiculous. Milk causes an insulin spike that is disassociated with it's GI rating. Could this be bad news for some people? I suppose. Will drinking 1 or 2 glasses of milk a day make you fat or derail your fat loss plans? I doubt it. Just have to be moderate like everything else.

Interestingly there is some evidence that low fat milks like skim and 1% are MORE likely to lead to fat gain than whole milk. All fats are not created equal so this may be because the fatty acids in milk assist your body in mobilizing fat. I'm not saying whole milk is a diet aid, however just that there is no reason to assume it's worse than low fat.

To me, the decision to drink milk lies with the individual. I could drink tons of it and not see any fat gain whereas another person may get "soft" on even a moderate amount.

[verbatimreturned]

I don't think the so called soft look is from fat gains, but its more from what in the milk. With bodybuilding things are complicated or from what I know they are, different people respond to different foods different (this is why stepping on stage is so hard, because you really need to know your body) some people will hold water from drinking milk, things like that. Also milk can be a little bit fatty but if you make it a staple of your diet and your drinking tons of it, it can probably put on a few lbs. I believe the soft look from drinking dairy can come from the sugar (but dont quote me on it)

now that your read my rant in conclusion I don't see the need to worry about it to much unless u plan on steppin on stage or something

[Eric3237]

I tend to agree. The extreme look and the extreme needs of "stepping on stage" just don't apply to most and when it comes down to it you can't look like that all the time and gain muscle in the first place.

[phreaknite]

eric, do you have a link to the study on the insulin spike? I would like to read up on that

[hrdgain81]

There is a very indepth thread on it here, if you use the search function you might just find it.

Its amazing how many times this has come up eric, aparently a very popular topic.

[Eric3237]

Originally Posted by hrdgain

Its amazing how many times this has come up eric,

I know who'd a thunk it?

Phreaknite I reposted some of that in the pre-workout nutrition


http://www.bodybuilding.net/nutritio...html#post18633

[hrdgain81]

its funny, for me the only reasons I can think of that I ever "look" soft is that I'm either fat, or I am very depleated so my muscles arent at the optimal hardness.

Now coming from a fat stand point, I can see how dairy can be a bad choice for the already obese. but we are talking about trained athleates, so it stands to reason that dairy should have no direct corelation to glycogen stores, unless we are talking about using it post workout, which would lead to shitty glycogen uptake as discussed in the other thread.

all in all it comes down to how your body reacts Phreaknite.

[Conan Steven]

There are 17 known allergens added to milk when they process it, this could be the cause of the puffy look - therefore it is regardless of fat content.

Also it may interest you to know that China has been rejecting American milk due to its unsuitability for human consumption:
http://www.newstarget.com/020166.html

[Eric3237]

If you're going to demonize American milk you may as well demonize just about everything else we farm. I would point out that most milk allergies are caused by a reaction to the native proteins in milk. And allergies, by definition, are inappropriate immune reactions to otherwise harmless substances. Every food group has it's own common allergens. Peanut allergies are very common. Should we demonize any manufacturer that uses peanuts it it's products? Just about any processed food you eat has the potential to contain allergens. That's why there are warning labels. But there is a difference between allergens and poisons. If your body didn't react inpappropriately to an allergen, it wouldn't otherwise hurt you.

I read that article. Powdered milk is not good for babies and should not be used as a formula replacement. It says so right on the boxes. WTF?