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flax seed(oil)

Nutrition discussion on flax seed(oil), within the Bodybuilding Forum; you see guys i keep telling people. eric is one of the smartest guys i know...


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Old 12-19-2007, 12:22 PM   #11
MONSTAFACE
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you see guys i keep telling people. eric is one of the smartest guys i know
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:05 PM   #12
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I'm blushing, monsta .

I really don't have all the answers on this, that is for sure. The more you look into it the more confusing and contradictory it all becomes. But I've found that to be the case with just about everything except mathemetics, and since I suck at math I guess I can't complain.

I think that one problem is that "media" driven info has caused actuall oils to be identified as efa's. So people call fish oil an efa. But only a very small amount of it is actually omega 3's, right? And between EPA and DHA could it be that even one of them, if consumed in too large amounts could be bad for you? Of course. Just like maybe too much ALA could be bad, or any other of a million things.

Well I don't want to make too much of that whole insulin thing. It was an example that I experienced and there is pretty straight forward info regarding that and people with EXISTING problems. I sure don't want to say this is gonna happen with such and such amounts, you know? It's just a potential that's there, along with others.

But, yes, I was really only talking about megadoses of ONE oil. And as far as all the different fats it's going to be hard for someone to micro-manage every little thing but people are looking at them either in isolation, you know like tons of fish oil will do this or that, or just as a matter of balance, as in as long as you have 2 to 1 or 1 to 1 or 4 to 1 (omega 6 to 3) or whatever the recommendation you are reading (I defy you to find a consistent one!)....so that you get the idea you can't have too much of anything as long as you maintain this balance but of course there has to exist an upper limit to how much omega 3 and 6 is good PERIOD along with all the other various fats in the diet. And that is talking about various food sources and oils. There comes a point if you overconsume one oil and try to balance it with others it's just not logical. You end up with too much of everything in the diet.

There don't exist any universally excepted RDA's of omega 6's and 3's but if you look at, say, the National institutes of Health for a 2000 calorie diet they give you this:

EPA and DHA -650 mg day
Alpha-Linolenic Acid - 2.22 g/day
Linoleic Acid - 4.44 g/day

Now I know that you will get people who will give you the "conspiracy theory of health". That is the theory that any health info that doesn't come from alternative health quack-sites is some kind of grand plot to feed you misinformation for whatever reason like pharmaceutical giants and maybe extraterrestrials are involved. But I think if you look at those amounts with even a grain of reason you will begin wonder where such huge amounts come from. And yeah I'm a geek who reads studies but I don't need studies to just apply cold hard logic to the two ends of the spectrum.

Remember those numbers are culled from the same info as anyone else gets their numbers from. Look at the amount of EPA and DHA. 650 mgs may seem extremely low but if such lows exist than it is easy to see that extremely high recommendations that yield up to 9 grams a day are just crazy.

And the overall amounts also paint the same picture. We are being told by the bodybuilding writers seizing on their favorite supplement or health craze to consume much, much more than those efa amounts at the low end. If two such extreme opinions exist then it is just like anything...The answer is always somewhere in the middle.

The only people that I have seen recommend these huge amounts of one oil is either someone who wants to sell you one or bodybuilding writers. Sorry, but bbing writers seem to be the most guilty. Most others will tell the average person (not you of course) that they are probably getting craploads of omega 6 and not enough 3's. So the answer is not to start consuming mega doses of 3's but to cut back on 6's and get a larger amount of 3's in the diet, but not a huge gargantuan amount.


But then you look at different omega 3's like EPA, DHA and ALA plus different 6's like LA versus GLA etc, so on. Plus all the different types of interactions that may be involved in the various fatty acid chemistry of different food sources and there are not easy cut and dry answers. But it certainly points to the fact that someone telling you that 30 grams of fish oil a day is good, or flax oil, or any other is missing the boat.

Maybe too much EPA in the diet, for instance, has a negative effect. Such as that in the immune study finding it to reduce killer t-cell activity by almost half over other fa's like ALA, GLA, LA, DHA and placebo oil blends which had no effect.

So like you said a blend may be a better idea but my main point is that we are better off reducing our omega 6 and taking in some more omega 3 in general but never relying on really big amounts of just one oil. That is all I'm really saying, not that I have the answers or anything on all this.

For myself I try to keep down the refined oils in my diet, take in some omega 3's and call it a day. Use a lot of olive oil but even with that not TOO much of qood thing . Trying to do more than that, like worrying about whether GLA is needed or something, just gives me a headache.

I definitely think you can overdo flax oil also and I don't mean to focus on fish oil and make it sound evil. I use it myself, of course but I don't control my diet even half as good as many people here, not at all. Some other member's control of all this would make me look like a slacker I'm just really down on the "mega-dosing" trend.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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