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flax seed(oil)

Nutrition discussion on flax seed(oil), within the Bodybuilding Forum; I went to the homeopathic store downtown, and asked about flax seed and flax seed oil. Now this was quite ...


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Old 12-05-2007, 04:04 AM   #1
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I went to the homeopathic store downtown, and asked about flax seed and flax seed oil.
Now this was quite some time ago, but I remember not buying it, because the lady said it's bad for men, something about cancer and the prostate.

Still I see so many bodybuilders using these products on daily bases.

Why?

Is it because the doc's just excaturate like they usually do with dietary supplements?

Or is there a potential "risk" that's just worth taking, considering the results?

Hit me.

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Old 12-05-2007, 06:48 AM   #2
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I just googled what you mentioned and this is the first thing that came up:
http://www.alternativehealth.co.nz/c...rate/index.htm

It raises many interesting points that I'm not going to allow myself to try to explain.

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If you're absolutely panicked by the flax warnings, you can use fish oil instead of flax and receive many of the benefits, but you will have to find another source of fiber, and you absolutely will not get the anticancer and cardiovascular-promoting benefits of the flax lignans. (Barron)
Personally I would go ahead with it. But it's just one of those things that you'll have to decide for yourself. Kind of like the whole ordeal with tuna...it contains mercury. Is it worth the very small risk? Although I don't think that flax seed oil has any verified health risks.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:39 PM   #3
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Flaxseed oil is okay to take. I have never heard that men should not take it. Flaxseeds are rich in omega 3 fatty acids, magnesium, potassium, and fiber. There also a good source of B vitamins, protein and zinc. Also, they are low in saturated fats and cholesterol. Also taking flaxseeds or the oil form can help reduce pain and inflammation, and swelling, as well as, the effects of arthritis. So, overall its a good and healthy supplement to take.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:40 PM   #4
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It's the kind of thing where you're going to hear about hundreds of benefits, including cancer prevention, and then the one question about prostate cancer.....which the jury is still out on. I guess it would be safe to say that the jury is out in general but that so far the good potentials are coming out ahead of the bad potentials.

As far as the prostate thing goes there are no studies that say FLAX OIL causes or aggravates prostate cancer. Only epidemiological, cell culure, and other studies that have to do with ALA. The idea is that flax OIL has very, very high concentrations of ALA compared to the seeds in whole form and so flax oil gets recommened against because of that. Of course there is a difference between the two things and ALA is found in high quantities elsewhere. It may also may have much to do with, and probably does, the balance of EFA's in the body, such as too much omega 6 as well as the processing and potential rancidity of many of the oils the ALA comes from. There are just more questions than answers, including some studies that suggest that flax oil protects against prostate cancer. That whole thing about Uruguay had nothing to do with flax specifically. The ALA was coming from meat, butter, all sorts of highly processed oils, etc. You can't rule out other dietary factors that may influence things in these emidemiological studies, including the balance of fats in the body.

If you are concerned about it but want the benefits of flax then use whole seeds ground up. Even people who are against flax oil agree that the amount of ALA in the whole seeds alone isn't enough to cause a problem for men with potential prostate problems. If you do use flax oil, which I do, don't over do it or rely on just one oil. Get fish oil, nuts, flax, olive oil, and maybe even an oil with GLA if you want to. I've noticed people are overconsuming oils sometimes buying into the whole more is better mentality. You can get TOO MUCH of ANYTHING.

I just posted a thing in the Fish Oil thread in the sup forum because I'd noticed many people here listing there fish oil intake in the 9 grams a day or more range. That is WAY too much. Same thing goes for any one oil.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:37 PM   #5
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I eat the corn chips with flax seeds in them from Traders Joe. I haven't noticed any problems. Besides flax seeds is high in Omega 3s. I've never heard of any warnings that men should NOT take flax seeds.

Just because you own a homeopathic store doesn't exactly make you qualified to say thing like that...

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Old 12-19-2007, 09:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
I just posted a thing in the Fish Oil thread in the sup forum because I'd noticed many people here listing there fish oil intake in the 9 grams a day or more range. That is WAY too much. Same thing goes for any one oil.
I disagree here. I don't think 9 grams of Fish Oil per day is too much. As long as other fats are in balance and good ratio, (maybe this is what you are getting at) there shouldn't be a problem.

There are guys out there (ie. Thibedeau and followers) who use more then 30 gr. per day with no complaints.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:34 AM   #7
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NO complaints don't mean no problems. 30 grams of any one oil is ridiculous. That's 1800 calories. If that is Thibadeau's only reference, i.e. "no complaints" then I am far from convinced. Increased bleeding time, increased oxidation, lower killer T-cell activity.....

LOL, didn't mean to type 1800 calories. 270 calories.

Last edited by EricT; 12-19-2007 at 10:06 AM..
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:58 AM   #8
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No no no.....I'm not saying that is Thib's reference. He does reccomend 30 gr of Fish Oil per day and there are a countless number that follow his reccomendations. I have yet to see any complaints.

If you consider that one tablespoon of Oil is 14 grams of Fats, then getting more then 30 gr isn't hard. I personally take 3 tablespoons of Flax Oil on a regular basis and my joints and connective tissues thank me for it.

I do reccomend an Oil Blend for those that do not monitor their intake of all the Fats and ensure proper ratios are met. An overabundance of Omega 6 can be detrimental but I have never heard of overuse of Omega 3.
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:37 AM   #9
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We're getting into bodybuilder mentality here. Everything is inflated past all reality. A typical recommended dose of fish oil is a tsp not a tablespoon. Your typical capsule (what most people take) is a gram. The typical dose of that is 3 capsules give or take. Is there some reason a bodybuilder would see benefits with doses of say twice that much? Sure maybe. Thrice that much, doubtful. 10 times that much, c'mon. With any substance that may be good for you body there exists a very finite threshold between good and harmful. The negative effects of that much fish oil has been documented. However, the postive effect of that kind of overconsumption have not really been documented except in the short term. But flax oil and fish oil...two very different things.

Why people think that huge amounts will make huge differences is beyond me. It's a supplement not a magic bullet. With larger doses of fish oil taken for a short time someone might get more tryglyceride lowering...but for a long time you just don't know the consequences. Honestly I used to categorize things like fish oil as a "food". My reasoning was that other dietary oils were food so why not fish oil. But I've realized that doesn't make sense. We overconsume "oils" in general. Notwithstanding the need for efa's (3, 6 ,9) and the value of supplementing them the fact is there is nothing natural or "food-like" about consuming large amounts of expressed oils. And any oil can be overused in that regard. Consuming large amounts of "omegas" will lead to large amounts of oxidation, for one thing, just like with any other oil consumption.

I wonder where people even get the idea of such large amounts as far as actual scientific info. Most of the studies use 3 or 4 grams at the most. You may get a couple with 6 to 10 grams or e even 20 grams but that is really on the high end of it. And just because one study may say that 20 grams a day lowered triglycerides 70 some percent or whatever doesn't tell you what it's doing to the rest of you body. Antiinflammatory effects certainly don't need so much to be realized. Right now there is just a fish oil craze going on and personally, I would hold off on the huge doses until more is known.

Most of what you here about is media driven. That includes bodybuilding sources. Someone gets ahold of the idea that fish oil is good for us and it's inflated beyond all proportion so that the sky is the limit. Marketing seizes on that and the problem excalates. j

It is not really overconsumption of "omega 3" that I commented on. It is the overconsumption of fish oil. Omega 3 is a class of oils. ALA in flax oil and others is also an omega 3 and you can look at the info or lack of info on the positive and negative effects of that particular fatty acid to draw your own conclusions. But yes, I definitely think you can overconsume omega 3. I think you can overconsume anything. I know that the popular recommendation is to balance the ratios of omegas (various recommendations) but that is usually about getting more omega 3 to balance an overabundance of omega 6 in the diet. That doesn't really cover taking in too much period.

I have taken huge amounts of fish oil in the past though and I did have some complaints. Another thing someone could potentially notice, especially someone with problems with insulin control is blood sugar fluctuations. When I took large amounts of fish oil in the past that is something I experienced. Usually I have no problems in that regard but I am sensitive to large amounts of particular things. For someone with diabetes overconsumption of fish oil is definietly not recommended.

Last edited by EricT; 12-19-2007 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:07 PM   #10
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I wasn't aware that there would be issues with EFA consumption and Insulin levels. Thanks for the heads up.....I'll have to read up on that.

I have never personally taken that much Fish Oil (except through "real" fish) I think my max has been 9 gr. in a day but was considering it after reading through some of Thib's work.

My main argument was based on amounts of EFA's and blends I have taken in the past with excellent results...not megadoses of Fish Oils, I didn't know there was a difference in the effects on Insulin.

I appreciate the real world experience of others. I see I have some reading to do.
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