Insulin Resistance/Sensitivity explained
 

Now this took me a few times reading through to get a grasp on it. And i'm not sure that I completely understand it yet, but I am working on it. For anyone that is trying to gain or lose wieght this is a MUST read IMO. Lyle knows what he is talking about.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...1&page=1&pp=15

before I read this, I was under the impression that Insulin Resistance was always bad. I guess this is a preconcieve notion, especially since I've know many diabetics and grossly over wieght people to be IR. But I never thought to look beyond that and see why they became IR. It is the bodies natural response to having to much fat, so it is very much something to try and achieve in the fat cells.

0311, there is an interesting post about L-carnitine in there, it basicly translates to (L-car) helps to allow stored fatty acids to the mitchondria(sp?) for use as fuel. This is in reference to the comment I made about using Alcar while cutting.

And a quick note for you guys bulking, from what i've gathered (I'm no expert, just an armchair research junky) it is imperative to have Insulin sensitivity at its optimum in the muscle cells for bulking. It basicly translates into having optimal glucose uptake to repair and fuel muscle cells. The same goes for cutting but in that instance you want IR in fat cells so they mobilize more quickly.

this is a lot to take in, my head hurts, please, discuss, throw out ideas, tell me i'm a moron and i should have learned this years ago ... cause i should have.

Thanks, Hrdgain. I've been looking for some good info on this subject. I don't have time to read it now but I'm gonna do so asap. :)

Good stuff. thanks

Nice..It really did actually take me this long to finally read this post. I'll cross reference anything I have in Lyle's UD2.0 book.

Here's something from his book about insulin..It's too much right now to sift through, but when I get a chance, I certainly will do so.

ok now here is where i am running into a problem guys. From my understanding and trial and error i've seen that fenugreek can increase insulin sensitivity.

"It was concluded that 2 g of a powdered mixture of traditional medicinal plants in either raw or cooked form can be successfully used for lowering blood glucose in diabetics."

"Administration of Fenugreek extract to STZ-diabetic rats reduced blood glucose level by 58%, restored liver glycogen content and significantly decreased kidney glycogen as well as liver glucose-6-phosphatase activity"

Both these quotes from pubmed. Now here in lies my confusion. If by utilizing fenugreek, i am decreasing blood glucose levels (increasing insulin sensitivity) then where is this glucose going? is it being shuttled to muscle? fat cells? is my fat cell insullin sensitivity increasing? or will the use of stims to inducrease fat and muscle insulin resistance stop those sugars from being shuttled to fat?

Man this shit is killing me, I wish I knew exactly what to exspect, none of the studies i've found have measured insulin response in seperate areas, they only seem to be concerned with blood/kidney/liver glucose levels and that doesnt translate into info I can use.

Man, that is a rub. Most studies on blood glucose are done from the standpoint of diabetics so I guess they just don't care where the glucose is going but only that blood glucose is being controlled. Not that I particularly know what I am talking about.

Fenugreek is definitely pretty well known for lowering blood glucose. I don't know if the studies on rats were the same ones that I read, but it is interesting to note that fenugreek had no effect when given alone in the studies I saw. But when it was given simultaneously with glucose a significant reduction in blood glucose occured. That may be a significant consideration and many other studies have found it to be antidiabetic in that it controls blood sugar in the PRESENSE of excess glucose. I too can find no conclusions as to where the glucose is supposed to be going. Seems just as likely to me that it could be increasing fat storage as anything else.

It is turning up in fat burners all over the place though.

Another well known effect of fenugreek that I have warned people about is its very rapid gastrointestinal coating. it can reduce the absorption of other things you may be taking with it. Something to keep in mind.

If I find or see anything else about it, I'll be sure to let you know, hrdgain.

Thanks eric. I think that if i use it with something that is gonna induce insulin resistance in fat and muscle it should aid in my cutting. I just dont want to be sure its not counter acting the effects of stims ect.

I would venture that if it is regulating blood sugar, and that sugar has no were to go (because of insulin resistance being high from stims) It would have to be emptied out, or stored in the liver. But liver glucose seems to decrease with fenugreek use also. god dam this is complicated.

I can say this shit is powerful though. I've overdone it before and ended up with a serious headache from it clearing my blood sugar out. Its cheap but its definately not to be toyed with.

Yeah. That's why I mentioned the blocking effects, too. And that's its main claim to fame as a fat loss supplement - being a fat/carb blocker due to the mucilaginous fiber.

I've seen the same thing about liver glycogen. But I can't find anything evidence except positive stuff in terms of weight control. I agree you are getting into an area where caution is called for when you start seriously toying with blood sugar.

The main theory as to how fenugreek controls blood sugar levels seems to be by increasing tissue insulin sensitivity. So, like you said, it's all very confusing but it kinda makes it seems like the stims could just cancel out the effect if that is the case, or vica versa like you mentioned.

It's very difficult to find an answer since the insulin effects of fenugreek are talked about and marketed in terms of diabeties. Like you said before that is what causes type II diabetes - when the fat cells become IR like they can in overweight persons, so it certainly all does seem to fit together.

This is going to warant some serious self testing in the near future. I cant go balls out with it until after I finish my dicana/stizm test. But Imo a meal specific dosage of fenugreek, used with a mild stim/apitite suppreser could be amazingly benificial.

Do you know of anything other then stims that can induce fat and muscle IR? I cant be on stims too long, they can cause depression, and rebound fat gain for me so i have to be careful. I usually cycle them 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

oh and i love this kinda shit by the way. Glad someone here has a similar interest eric.