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Nutrition discussion on Nutrition..., within the Bodybuilding Forum; Just wanted to know what and when would be the best things to eat pre and post workout and through ...


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Old 07-26-2007, 12:08 PM   #1
Mahargg7715
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Just wanted to know what and when would be the best things to eat pre and post workout and through out the day. For a while i would just consentrate on working out and not so much my diet but lately ive been reading up and realising how stupid i was all thoughs years. I usually have oatmeal in the morning but also cereal sometimes and sandwiches during the day and other snacks. I think i have my pre and post shakes down but i feel like im not getting enough food or calories and i play sports in between. Im trying to bulk but just want to get my diet right.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:52 PM   #2
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your diet will depend completely on how cleanly you want to bulk. If you put on fat quickly then you will want to stick to low GI carbs like oatmeal, whole grains, ect. I see no problem with sandwiches an such, just make sure your getting good meats, and good breads. The expensive stuff tastes better anyway, and it will have less fillers, salts ect. Its reallly gonna come down to overall food intake, so make sure your meeting your numbers, usually 500-1000 cals over maint.

as for pre/post workout check out the how to bulk sticky. I like to do a small pre work out shake so I dont get bloated, usually 15g whey, 20-30g dex/malto. Then post i pound down atleast 40g whey, and 60g dex/malto. its up to you though, play with it an see what works for you.

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Old 07-28-2007, 07:19 AM   #3
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alright but is waxy maize the same thing as dex and malto.
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Old 07-28-2007, 03:44 PM   #4
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NO.

Waxy maize is a special kind of corn that contains higher levels of amylopectin starch than amylose (the two basic starch types). This starch is absorbed faster, etc. so on....

High amylocpectin starches for some products are derived from different grains such as barley (high amylopectin barley) also. I have no reliable information on whether the corn products are better but I highly doubt it would make a big difference.

Maltodextrin is a polyglucose (a bunch of saccarides linked together..up to 20) and dextrose is a simple sugar otherwise known as corn sugar and can be thought of pretty much as glucose. Both are made from corn.

Waxy maize can be used alone to take the place of malto and dextrose together. It packs a wallop though so needs to be experimented with to find the best levels. BTW you could use all three together actually...I have and it worked great but it's completely unnecessary unless you find WMS messing with your sugar levels like I did (I'm a little leary about it in general for various complicated reasons).

If you look through the pre and post workout nutrition sticky you'll find all types of in-depth info and options.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 07-29-2007, 11:17 AM   #5
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thanks i thought differently about dextrose, but what do u mean WMS could mess with my sugar levels, like getting diabetes or what.
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Old 07-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #6
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Well consuming too much high amylopectin starch has been linked to insulin resistance. In the LONG term that could, yes, lead to diabetes I guess but in general it would reverse once someone stopped consuming so much of that starch. But that's using really high levels as an intregal part of the diet. Not necessarily the amounts some might use around their workouts. So it may depend on how sesitive you are to it.

But basically what I meant is that is may cause abnormal fluctuations in your sugar levels which would go away once you decreased the amounts or stopped taking it.

I think it is important to keep in mind that our bodies have not previously (in nature) come into contact with such high levels of this starch. It's a little "unnatural" in that regard. I'm not saying it's evil or it's going to kill you only that it hits the bloodstream super super fast in high levels. Which is good for our purposes but should be used with caution.
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:56 PM   #7
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ok thanks eric, i knew for the most part that it was a strong starch but thats good to know.
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:58 PM   #8
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Definitely.

Here is something I posted before that really explains this (just to add to the info)...

In case anyone is wondering why this "waxy maize starch" is digested quicker and has a higher glycemic index than, say, regular corn starch, or maltodextrin (which is pretty darn high) is is because it is high in AMYLOPECTIN. Starches are usually made up of Amylose and Amylocpection.

Here is part of an article by Dan Duchaine which provides a handy explanation:

You can see that white table sugar has a moderate GI of only 65. As you will learn, many starches have a much higher GI than sucrose. Unlike starch, which uses only the alpha-amylase-glucosidase enzyme, many sugars are cleaved by other enzyme, which are less efficient. Also, both galactose and fructose are not immediately converted into glucose but have an intermediate conversion (needing additional enzymes) to glycogen in the liver. Scientists have long assumed that the highest GI foods were the mono- and di- saccharides. This is not correct. The highest GI carbohydrates are the glucose oligomers, which are starch chains between three and ten glucose molecules long, 9 such as commercially available maltodextrins derived from cornstarch. This is an embarrassing admission I was involved in the introduction of maltodextrins into the sports supplement market in 1981, heralding them as the newest "complex carbohydrates."

Factors that Affect the Glycemic Index

GRAIN PROCESSING: The less processed a grain is, the smaller the surface area. Finely ground wheat flours might make attractive-looking, soft breads, but they are digested very quickly and thus have a higher GI.

GELATINIZATION: Inside a grain, starch molecules are grouped into dense structures called granules. Gelatinization occurs when water and heat cause the granule to swell, exposing more surface area. With enough water and heat, some starch molecules will break off, which is what happens when you heat water and wheat flour to make gravy.

STARCH COMPOSITION: There are two basic starch structures: amylose and amylopectin. Amylose is simply a straight string of glucose molecules. It looks like this:

0000000

Amylose is broken down slowly from the ends, like it is being eaten by Pac Man in slow motion. Amylose is also called "resistant starch" because only about 40% can be digested. Most starches have some amount of amylose in them. Uncooked cornstarch has about 70% amylose. Some types of rice have 28%; others have only 2%. The higher the amylose content, the lower the GI. Unlike the mock carbohydrates in the old starch blockers (or the prescription drug acarbose), amylose is not easily fermented. Starch blockers dump fermentable starch into the colon, causing, in polite medical language, "meteorism" (which is projectile vomiting from the opposite end).

Amylopectin, the more complex starch, has a structure that looks like this:
0
1
0
1
000000000
1
0
1
0
Every four or so glucose molecules, the chain branches. In this structure, our Pac Man-like enzymes can chomp away at the end of every glucose chain. There is more exposed area for the enzymes to attack, so amylopectins generally are digested faster and therefore have higher GI's.

There is one instance when this isn't true. Some new maltodextrins (usually fragmented amylose) are reduced amylopectins. A straight-chain maltodextrin has a high GI, but a branched-chain maltodextrin has a lower GI, which is why I like to use them in diet meal-replacement powders
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:00 AM   #9
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^^
Sweet bro thanks
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:05 PM   #10
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oh yeah and as far as nutrition goes.. i usually wake up and down a shake then later i eat breakfast, oatmeal, cereal. Then like 3 maybe 4 hours later i eat, usually a snack or protien bar. Lunch would be my next priority and then following an hour or so later would be my workout that may last between an hour or hour 1/2. Post Workout shake right after then following that 30 min later a meal, usually boars head turkey sandwich on wheat and like an apple. Then i keep eating every 3 hours or so till dinner, and have like peanuts or almonds, maybe another sandwich cause there easy to make. So idk thats for the most my nutritional info. for the day. Is it ok or should i eat more or what. Im trying to bulk a little more than stay normal so i might need to take in a few more cals. Thanks.
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