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Nutrition discussion on pre/post workout..., within the Bodybuilding Forum; Most of the studies comparing the peaking of casein and whey are done on concentrate, not hydrosolate. And the so-called ...


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Old 09-28-2007, 02:20 PM   #21
EricT
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Most of the studies comparing the peaking of casein and whey are done on concentrate, not hydrosolate. And the so-called post workout window lasts up to two hours so I don't think anyone ever said you need something in 5 or ten minutes.

With whey you are much faster than the turtle of casein . Concentrate or not it's a really huge difference in the rates of the two. But that's just detail (you may have missed my edit, btw, lol, we are always doing this ).

And I think your are right you are getting SOME quicker amino as opposed to if your shake was JUST casein. Definitely. I'd say you may be looking at up to 50% slower than if it were just whey. But as before, I agree that it's good. I didn't mean to say that a mixture of whey and casein is assimilated at the same speed as JUST casein. It's still faster.

Let me be clear again, to you 0311, and everyone else that I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do and I'm not saying that 0311's protocol is not good. I think pre is the real test anyway. All I'm doing, as usual, is trying to provide the INFO rather than the conclusions so that people can use it to plan with. What I do may not be the way that is best for you. I'm not trying to foust my methods on anyone. I just like to start with the most accurate info I can so that someone can take whatever value they see fit.

BTW, D, I'm having deja vu. I think we have had this EXACT same conversation before, lol.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:43 PM   #22
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You know, as usual, getting caught up in the minutia, I lost sight of that central point about pre-workout meal. I've said it before, the post workout meal and the timing of the nutrients thereof become less important if you're doing fast protein and carbs immediately pre-workout. That was kind of stupid for me to go on and on without even mentioning that until the end. It wasn't until 0311 mentioned the point that I realized I never said anything about it. PRE, I do believe is the more important of the two.

If you're not having the fast stuff for pre but are just having the sower protein and carbs (or a mixture) some time before, than the timing of post becomes more important.

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Originally Posted by hrdgain
didnt realize that held true with both protien and carbs. My understanding was that if you mix high GI carbs, with Low GI carbs, there combined GI rating is some where in the middle. Interesting that protien has the same type reaction.
Well you know when it comes to meals the GI of it is affected by everything in the meal including protein, fat, and fiber. The carbs are probably the single most important determinant, of course. But with proteins I'm just talking about the speed of whey. Comparing casein to eggs to beef to chicken would be just completely pointless.

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Old 10-15-2007, 03:01 PM   #23
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This is not to beat a dead horse but just to share my thoughts. I was reading Alwyn Cosgrove's blog post today and it reminded me of something. Somebody asked about their son being give a casein drink after workouts and wouldn't it be better to have whey.

Alwyn said sure whey is faster but he went on the make the point that the BIGGEST affect is something after the workout veruse nothing after the workout. It is a huge upgrade to just HAVE a shake, slow or fast after your workout. And that will make a much bigger impact than the upgrade to fast protein.

Right off the bat he also pointed out that most of the studies on post workout stuff are done after a FAST. Something I myself have been aware of and even taken pains to point out in the post only to forget the significance of it later on. It's a completely unrealistic scenario and it INFLATES the values given after the post workout drink. Having eaten plenty PERIOD throughout the day is more important in the long run...you can't deny that. But by the same token if, say you're working out first thing in the morning without anything in your stomach then the post workout suddenly becomes really important. But if you have something before hand, even if it's just a pre-workout shake with no really breakfast then the post workout is not going to have anywhere near as significant effect IN THE LONG TERM.

It really underscores, to me, what 0311 was saying about his own pre and post and my own point that PRE is more important and more significant in the long run. Not just pre-workout shakes but the overall status of your bodily fuel.
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