pre work out shake = bs?
 

i think that eating a pre sowkout carb drink or a protien shake is pointless. why dont you just eat some regular food like pasta or fish? i think its pointless to eat any shake if you can have food instead. what do you think about this?

because of the fact that whey protein and dextrose are fast absorbing and is readily available for ur body to use by the time you workout. Pasta on the other hand is relatively slower in digesting and it would make a great meal about 30 minutes to an hour after ur post workout shake.

Intstead of forming uninformed opinions you could try reading all the information available on a subject and then try to come to a conclusion. You also might try different things before you decide what is pointless.

Is eating "real" food good for pre-workout? Yes. But is it good for immeditately pre-workout. What do you think? Do you really want some pasta and fish floating around in your belly while you lift weights? Like opfor said you have to have time to digest. I'd actually suggest more like 45 minutes if not an hour.

The right carbs immediately pre can do a lot of things for you..including an energy boost. Whey is great for immediately pre and it is certainly not pointless to ensure that your body has a readily available source of aminos going into you workout. Think of it as "topping off you tank".

You don't HAVE to do it. It depends on what you want.

keywords in the original post, "i think"...

Exactly Eric and Scorcher, exactly, exactly...

Here we go, check this out..there are many such studies but this one should suffice.

Basically this study records a greater increase in muscular strength and hypertrophy in subjects consuming a PRE and POST-exercise drink supplement containing protein/creatine/glucose compared to subjects who didn't.

Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy.
Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport; and the School of Biomedical Sciences, Victoria University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

PURPOSE: Some studies report greater muscle hypertrophy during resistance exercise (RE) training from supplement timing (i.e., the strategic consumption of protein and carbohydrate before and/or after each workout). However, no studies have examined whether this strategy provides greater muscle hypertrophy or strength development compared with supplementation at other times during the day. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program. METHODS: In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. All assessments were completed the week before and after 10 wk of structured, supervised RE training. Assessments included strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, creatine (Cr), and glycogen content. RESULTS: PRE-POST demonstrated a greater increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments. The changes in body composition were supported by a greater increase in CSA (cross-sectional area)of the type II fibers and contractile protein content. PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle Cr and glycogen values after the training program CONCLUSION: Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from Resistence-training.


Iron

I don't think I had seen that one, nice find. As far as I know there aren't any others that examine the same sups but at different times (other than around the workout). I'm gonna link back to this in post one of the sticky.

There really is a lot of evidence supporting this. Obvioulsy one needs to consider his own goals and sensitivities, and in the long run, as I always say, you have to judge for yourself whether it is right for you.

I would like to see stuff examaning different pre-workout protocols in terms of timing and protein/carb type. If only just for curiousity's sake.

I have seen quite a few as well that show that an immediately before and an immediately after drink (doing both are better than one or the other) improve results.

But, I'm like you. I don't recall any that examine the differences in amounts and what mixtures are best for the optimum pre and post drink. Most studies as I recall use fairly small amounts of protein of whatever type in their studies. May be room to do some tweaking there. Hadn't thought about that one much. I'll do some digging.

Well there's a lot of info in the sticky that could help people tweak their formula. Like that study used pure glucose and it is pretty clear that pure glucose is not optimal for any athletic endeavor, as it has been for years. But they were probably trying to keep is simple. But yes, the different types of things you could do would be interesting to see clinical research on. This kind of research is fairly new so I'm sure that we'll see more detailed stuff coming along.

I was particularly thinking about the comparison between slow carbs/protein 45 minutes to an hour pre and fast ones immediately pre. And of course I mean for healthy trainees. For someone with metabolic issues such as insulin resistance there could be very sound reasons to do one thing or the other.

Exactly the way I was thinking. Assuming the body needs the nutrients as close to the actual exercise time as possible than slow carbs/protein 45 minutes to an hour pre and fast ones immediately after makes sense.

Perhaps tweak it even further by a pre-drink mix with mostly slow release but with a small percentage of fast release, maybe 80/20 and for the post-drink all fast release.

I'm glad you guys cleard that up. I started to think all those years of taking Pre workout shakes was wrong. LOL:) :biglaugh:

I can clear up some things about the best fishing bait too :biglaugh:

LOL dr.x i doubt you needed us to tell you that. :biglaugh:

is it better to have solid carbs in your pre and post like oatmeal blended in with your shake or is better to have malto or dex?

Ive never used malto or dex... been meaning to judging by all the support of malto on this forum

you definately dont want "solid carbs" as you call them in pre and post. You want faster digesting/high GI carbs in both situations. Low GI carbs would be fine an hour before and after though.