Average Person - Bodybuilding Discussion on Bodybuilding.net Open Conversation

Kane · 08-07-2007, 05:45 PM

This is kind of my pet peeve. Everyone is compared to the average regardless of whether you're above or below it. That seems logical but here's my problem. I was talking to a physiotherapist at my gym (because I know her, she's a friend) and I told her about my shoulder and how I fucked it up. So we got talking and she kept saying.... the average person can't do this or do that, the average person's joints aren't capable of blah blah. And whenever I say something to a buddy about a lift being sub-par (oh man, I could only squat 415 for 1 rep today) they say something along the lines of "well fuck, thats alot more than most people can do"...

I (and most on this site) am not average. If I can't OHP 115lbs without shoulder pain or discomfort, its not because its too heavy for me. If I was squatting 425 for working sets of 5 and now I'm doing 315 for the same, then thats a serious setback. The average person is weak and small. Christ, I'm overweight if you look at my bodyweight compared to the average.

Here's my point: If I'm not average then why compare me and my body to the average? To me thats like comparing a Honda Civic to a Ferrari (not that I'm saying I'm a Ferrari or anything

)

I just wanted to kinda vent and see if anyone else has an opinion on it.

triqqey · 08-07-2007, 08:26 PM

oh Kane, but you are a Ferrarri

not sure about other countries like Canada, but here in the U.S.A. the news stations seem to get off on filming the fattest people around eating iced cream and spouting off a report about how so many Americans are fat/overweight that being fat/overweight is the norm, and people that workout hard are obsessive-compulsive, plus if you look like a huge bodybuilder then you have to be the least flexible person ever and dumb as a rock. then the person who lifts weights and is lean like an olympic swimmer is self-obsessed/borderline narcissistic, and a womanizer.

if you can't be compared to what the "average" person is perceived to be, then who should you be compared to?

I'm kind of curious why a physiotherapist would say something like the average person's joints not being able to handle a very heavy weight. I've been under the impression that the "average" person can lift weights enough to get their joints strong enough to handle that load.

also, a lot of those scales officially put out by the government "health officials" such as the average weight for someone's height and the food pyramid are (if I remember the disclaimer correctly) meant to be used to measure the sedentary individual, and do not account for athletes of any kind (well, maybe a long distance runner)

Eric3237 · 08-08-2007, 11:37 AM

Well truthfully I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Are you complaining about being injured? Because you are responsible for that and if you don't except that you are not super-human but in fact, have "average" capacity for your tendons and ligaments to recover from whatever stimulus, you will continue to be injured. If you don't know how to balance programming over the long haul...likewise.

Like triggey said, who should you be compared to. I don't think they have a superman scale.

I don't know what the physiotherapist meant but when people say "average" they usually mean in terms of genetic potential. They don't mean you in your current state as compared to others in their state. LOL, being above average in terms of fitness doesn't mean you are an above average human being. Anybody can lift weights if they choose to. If you're above average in terms of dedication that doesn't mean that you're joints will always see it you way.

It really has to do with the metabolic potential of you joint tissues as opposed to your muslces. If you are in a state of diminishing recovery and mounting fatigue the tendons, ligaments, etc will be very likely to be the first injured simply because they always recover more slowly anyway. As I've said again, and again, and again, most of these injuries are NOT cause by lifting one heavy weight. If your therapist thinks that then she is dead wrong. Most of them are caused by imbalances coupled with overuse. Period. As the weight gets heavier you see the results simply because the body reaches a threshold...but it would have happend sooner or later if changes weren't made.

No matter what kind of shape you are in you can still exceed recovery capacity. You can still train wrong. If you have the attitude that you are invincible then in the long run you will have many more setbacks. Sorry, bro, but your are, most likely, average. So am I. So are most of us. That is, after all, what average means. If there wasn't a such thing as average and it didn't include most of us, then you wouldn't have much need for forums.

But I agree about the whole 'average person's joint's thing'. That doesn't make any sense. But I still don't understand what exactly the complaint is. Do you want her to tell you, oh, Kane, you are so bad-ass, the universe must be against you for this to happen! Doesn't matter about the average person's joints. It only matters about yours and you injured yours so.....

Kane · 08-08-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric3237

oh, Kane, you are so bad-ass, the universe must be against you for this to happen!

LOL

I'm not complaining about being injured or any past injuries, right now I'm perfectly healthy... Its moreso the fact that individual capabilities and individual norms are not taken into account (IME so far). I'm not claiming to be superhuman

but I guess my poorly written post can be summed up as, what's normal for the average person may not be normal for me.

I suppose instead of average I should be compared to myself

Eric3237 · 08-08-2007, 02:58 PM

I don't know why I even bother

The individual norms and capabilities are you having a typical explsion in strength as someone new to lifting (and young) and now it having slowed down as you come closer and closer to your genetic potential. I guess maybe you feel that you've done something extraordinary but when you start celebrating putting 5 pounds on a max lift you'll probably be able to put things in perspective.

There are guys that weigh ten pounds less than you that can lift almost twice as much. That's above average, my friend. Consider a guy deadlifting around 790 at 165 pounds. Yep.

I hope I'm not coming off as an asshole. It just seems like you need a dose of reality, bro.

Kane · 08-08-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric3237

I hope I'm not coming off as an asshole. It just seems like you need a dose of reality, bro.

Certainly don't think you're an asshole. I am a stubborn Canadian sometimes though lol

Eric3237 · 08-08-2007, 05:36 PM

Yeah, haha. I'm still not exactly sure what your were getting at but it kinda sounds like you expect your rate of stength expression or ability to retain small increases not to change. But that's just a normal part of it and the reason I said all that is because in expecting it not to change you might think doing the same things as always will garner the same results but it will never be that way.

hrdgain81 · 08-09-2007, 06:39 AM

I took Kane' original post to me only this

I'm obviously not average, so stop comparing what I do to what some lazy fat ass bastard does ...

I concur Kane, its like when you go to squat, and rep say 285-315, and the guy in the next rack (who is a blob) looks at you and says "wow thats amazing" but little does he know that its not amazing, your having a bad day, and you would usually be pushing 385 at this point in your workout.

Or when your upset with your workout, and people say, the average person couldnt do half what you just did. Is that suppose to make me feel better? I train my ass off, i run till it hurts, I push big wieghts, and I sacrafice a lot to do what I do, so yes please, liken my efforts of superiority to the average 35% bf, out of shape, slug, who really doesnt take pride in anything he does.

F'em all.

Eric3237 · 08-09-2007, 09:46 AM

Nm

Still not dealing with the anger there, big boy?

hrdgain81 · 08-09-2007, 11:03 AM

I deal, in my own way hahahah

i suppose that post was a bit angry ...

08-07-2007, 05:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kane Rank: Lightweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,419 Country: Gender:	Average Person This is kind of my pet peeve. Everyone is compared to the average regardless of whether you're above or below it. That seems logical but here's my problem. I was talking to a physiotherapist at my gym (because I know her, she's a friend) and I told her about my shoulder and how I fucked it up. So we got talking and she kept saying.... the average person can't do this or do that, the average person's joints aren't capable of blah blah. And whenever I say something to a buddy about a lift being sub-par (oh man, I could only squat 415 for 1 rep today) they say something along the lines of "well fuck, thats alot more than most people can do"... I (and most on this site) am not average. If I can't OHP 115lbs without shoulder pain or discomfort, its not because its too heavy for me. If I was squatting 425 for working sets of 5 and now I'm doing 315 for the same, then thats a serious setback. The average person is weak and small. Christ, I'm overweight if you look at my bodyweight compared to the average. Here's my point: If I'm not average then why compare me and my body to the average? To me thats like comparing a Honda Civic to a Ferrari (not that I'm saying I'm a Ferrari or anything ) I just wanted to kinda vent and see if anyone else has an opinion on it.
	Kane's Sig:Bench:275 [1x1] Deadlift:365 [1x3] A2G Squat:275 [1x3] "Shut up and squat!" "NO, this is my squat rack. Go get your own!"

08-07-2007, 08:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
triqqey Rank: Member Experience: > 1 Year Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Podunk, USA Posts: 203 Country: Gender:	oh Kane, but you are a Ferrarri not sure about other countries like Canada, but here in the U.S.A. the news stations seem to get off on filming the fattest people around eating iced cream and spouting off a report about how so many Americans are fat/overweight that being fat/overweight is the norm, and people that workout hard are obsessive-compulsive, plus if you look like a huge bodybuilder then you have to be the least flexible person ever and dumb as a rock. then the person who lifts weights and is lean like an olympic swimmer is self-obsessed/borderline narcissistic, and a womanizer. if you can't be compared to what the "average" person is perceived to be, then who should you be compared to? I'm kind of curious why a physiotherapist would say something like the average person's joints not being able to handle a very heavy weight. I've been under the impression that the "average" person can lift weights enough to get their joints strong enough to handle that load. also, a lot of those scales officially put out by the government "health officials" such as the average weight for someone's height and the food pyramid are (if I remember the disclaimer correctly) meant to be used to measure the sedentary individual, and do not account for athletes of any kind (well, maybe a long distance runner)
	triqqey's Sig:"The iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The iron will always kick you the real deal. The iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends come and go, but 200 pounds is always 200 pounds." -Henry Rollins

08-08-2007, 11:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,476 Country: Gender:	Well truthfully I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Are you complaining about being injured? Because you are responsible for that and if you don't except that you are not super-human but in fact, have "average" capacity for your tendons and ligaments to recover from whatever stimulus, you will continue to be injured. If you don't know how to balance programming over the long haul...likewise. Like triggey said, who should you be compared to. I don't think they have a superman scale. I don't know what the physiotherapist meant but when people say "average" they usually mean in terms of genetic potential. They don't mean you in your current state as compared to others in their state. LOL, being above average in terms of fitness doesn't mean you are an above average human being. Anybody can lift weights if they choose to. If you're above average in terms of dedication that doesn't mean that you're joints will always see it you way. It really has to do with the metabolic potential of you joint tissues as opposed to your muslces. If you are in a state of diminishing recovery and mounting fatigue the tendons, ligaments, etc will be very likely to be the first injured simply because they always recover more slowly anyway. As I've said again, and again, and again, most of these injuries are NOT cause by lifting one heavy weight. If your therapist thinks that then she is dead wrong. Most of them are caused by imbalances coupled with overuse. Period. As the weight gets heavier you see the results simply because the body reaches a threshold...but it would have happend sooner or later if changes weren't made. No matter what kind of shape you are in you can still exceed recovery capacity. You can still train wrong. If you have the attitude that you are invincible then in the long run you will have many more setbacks. Sorry, bro, but your are, most likely, average. So am I. So are most of us. That is, after all, what average means. If there wasn't a such thing as average and it didn't include most of us, then you wouldn't have much need for forums. But I agree about the whole 'average person's joint's thing'. That doesn't make any sense. But I still don't understand what exactly the complaint is. Do you want her to tell you, oh, Kane, you are so bad-ass, the universe must be against you for this to happen! Doesn't matter about the average person's joints. It only matters about yours and you injured yours so.....
	Eric3237's Sig:Anybody can talk a lot. Smart people listen... -Son's first grade teacher

08-08-2007, 02:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,476 Country: Gender:	I don't know why I even bother The individual norms and capabilities are you having a typical explsion in strength as someone new to lifting (and young) and now it having slowed down as you come closer and closer to your genetic potential. I guess maybe you feel that you've done something extraordinary but when you start celebrating putting 5 pounds on a max lift you'll probably be able to put things in perspective. There are guys that weigh ten pounds less than you that can lift almost twice as much. That's above average, my friend. Consider a guy deadlifting around 790 at 165 pounds. Yep. I hope I'm not coming off as an asshole. It just seems like you need a dose of reality, bro.
	Eric3237's Sig:Anybody can talk a lot. Smart people listen... -Son's first grade teacher

08-08-2007, 05:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,476 Country: Gender:	Yeah, haha. I'm still not exactly sure what your were getting at but it kinda sounds like you expect your rate of stength expression or ability to retain small increases not to change. But that's just a normal part of it and the reason I said all that is because in expecting it not to change you might think doing the same things as always will garner the same results but it will never be that way.
	Eric3237's Sig:Anybody can talk a lot. Smart people listen... -Son's first grade teacher

08-09-2007, 06:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
hrdgain81 Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 5-7 Years Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,564	I took Kane' original post to me only this I'm obviously not average, so stop comparing what I do to what some lazy fat ass bastard does ... I concur Kane, its like when you go to squat, and rep say 285-315, and the guy in the next rack (who is a blob) looks at you and says "wow thats amazing" but little does he know that its not amazing, your having a bad day, and you would usually be pushing 385 at this point in your workout. Or when your upset with your workout, and people say, the average person couldnt do half what you just did. Is that suppose to make me feel better? I train my ass off, i run till it hurts, I push big wieghts, and I sacrafice a lot to do what I do, so yes please, liken my efforts of superiority to the average 35% bf, out of shape, slug, who really doesnt take pride in anything he does. F'em all.
	hrdgain81's Sig:"Its clear why the journey was so painful, metamorphosis, this is what I changed to, and god I'm so thankful" - Nas APT ProWristStraps www.TheLocalSpots.com Built for young professionals on a budget. AIM: TLSCEOMI

08-09-2007, 09:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,476 Country: Gender:	Nm Still not dealing with the anger there, big boy? Last edited by Eric3237; 08-09-2007 at 10:19 AM.
	Eric3237's Sig:Anybody can talk a lot. Smart people listen... -Son's first grade teacher

08-09-2007, 11:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
hrdgain81 Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 5-7 Years Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,564	I deal, in my own way hahahah i suppose that post was a bit angry ...
	hrdgain81's Sig:"Its clear why the journey was so painful, metamorphosis, this is what I changed to, and god I'm so thankful" - Nas APT ProWristStraps www.TheLocalSpots.com Built for young professionals on a budget. AIM: TLSCEOMI

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