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Darkhorse 03-25-2006 04:47 PM

Pec Tear w/ PICS!
 
Well fellas, for those of you who haven't been following the soap opera called, "0311 is screwed from birth", I have a minor pec tear of my left pectoralis. I got it from flat barbell pressing. I've been successfully benching for the past 9 years without a problem, with a max of 405x2 back in September. But, I consider myself very lucky. In case anyone's wondering, I was only pressing 325 for (3x5). Nothing near my max. The first set of 5 was nothing..After doing 8 warmup/acclimation sets. My second set, about the third rep, I felt a wierd ripping sensation. It wasn't painful whatsoever, and I can describe it like pulling the fat off of chicken when preparing it. My doctor described what happened like this: Picture having 50 rubber bands that are all in line stretched out. Now take a pair of scissors and cut 5 of them. Those cut bands are now balled up. The good news is that since my chest is good to go aside from a piece of my lower chest, over time it'll reconnect and heal.

Here's a pic: http://www.savefile.com/files/8026774

Now, why do I consider myself lucky? Since my tear, I've been doing a ton of research into pec tears with Pub Med, ect. In EVERY case of a actual pec tear (which is rare to begin with), the cause was accredited to the FLAT barbell bench press. Coincidence?....Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's a measure of risk vs. reward. So I now ask myself, can I still keep growing out my chest without flat barbell?...Yup. From now on, the only flat pressing I'm going to do is with dumbbells. Lesson learned. I'd honestly be too scared to try flat pressing again, worried about retearing my pecs.

I'm posting this just to make sure everyone at least learns from what happened to me. I'm NOT saying to dump flat barbell pressing!..Like I said, I had a good run of heavy flat pressing for over 9 years. What I am saying is to keep in the back of your minds to listen to your body when doing this exercise. My first set of 5 reps felt very tight in my outer pec area. I didn't listen and now I'm screwed for the next month (at least).

Here's a quote from Dante that sums this subject up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante
I have hit on this subject so many times now--ill just put it like this. There is no other exercise that has ended more weight lifting careers IMO than this one. Regardless of that fact for some people it does incredible things. So I draw a middle road here. WHAT DO YOU PERSONALLY WANT TO DO? Is it such a beneficial exercise for you that your willing to take the risk of possible tearing the pec muscle and disfiguring yourself for life? (unlike tearing the pec tendon where you can make a pretty good recovery but will still take you out of your game for 6-12 months). So I try to compromise and keep people safe by saying "train with or have a powerlifter teach you how to do the exercise correctly and safely-which isnt the iron cross method every gym joe rat uses but rather the elbows angling downward and chest really high method"--with that try to keep in a 20-30rp rep range if possible, 10+6+4 will get the job done and hopefully keep injury at bay.
What pissed me off once was some guy was rest pausing bench presses on another site in the 11-15 range and really hurt his shoulder bad. Now any other type of training he would of done he would of said "Man I screwed up my shoulder royally bench pressing, this sucks"---Can you guess what his thread title was? "INJURED USING DC TRAINING"...and his post was along the lines of "any of you other bro's get injured doing DC training?" .....No you got injured doing the flat barbell bench press. And I say that to anyone here. You can do what you want exercise wise but if you tear your pec, guess what? YOU and only you made that choice to use flat BB press. You might get 2 inches of thickness and no pec tears or torn rotator cuffs from the exercise. More power to you. Or you might end up with a look in your left pec that visually is like someone took a shovel and took a huge chunk out of it if you tear it. Either way remember you weighed the benefit to risk and you alone made your choice and I hope it works out for you

I'm going to try like hell to post a pic tonight of my bruising.

My plan now is to go to physical therapy, keep blasting legs twice a week, and cardio in-between. Resting and eating Vicodin on a per day basis. :fest30:

EDIT: I've just reread this whole thread and I don't see anything about the Superdrol I was taking at the time. By far and large, I'm pretty certain the SD was the only thing I've done any differently in my nine years lifting...It isn't a coincidence that I'm not the only one listing a tear as a side effect from the SD neither..:nutkick:

EricT 03-25-2006 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311
Now, why do I consider myself lucky? Since my tear, I've been doing a ton of research into pec tears with Pub Med, ect. In EVERY case of a actual pec tear (which is rare to begin with), the cause was accredited to the FLAT barbell bench press. Coincidence?....Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's a measure of risk vs. reward. So I now ask myself, can I still keep growing out my chest without flat barbell?...Yup. From now on, the only flat pressing I'm going to do is with dumbbells. Lesson learned. I'd honestly be too scared to try flat pressing again, worried about retearing my pecs.

Since your tear I launched into a similar search and that is exactly what I found, also. It is rare, but flat bench seems to most often be the culprit.

verbatimreturned 03-25-2006 05:12 PM

very sorry to hear that 0311, I wish you a speedy recovery. A pic would be interesting, is it all black and blue by the area of the tear?

Darkhorse 03-25-2006 05:56 PM

One more thing....In case anyone's thinking about it, I always put my pinkey's on the rings of the bar. Never, ever do I use a wider grip for a hundred reasons..

Verb, I just posted pics in the first post. Basically, the bruising first appeared at the site of the injury...Only a few days after the trauma. As of now, my left pec is twice the size of my right. The doc told me that's because there's a lot of fluid (blood) under the pec that hasn't surfaced yet. When a muscle tears, it bleeds, which is why the second it happens, you need to put ice on it to control the bleeding. What did I do?...I did 4 sets of JS Rows because I didn't want to waste the day. :D Consequently, not a very good choice!

hrdgain81 03-25-2006 07:05 PM

shit bro, I wish you a speedy recovery. I was wondering why you havent been around in a while.

_Wolf_ 03-25-2006 07:36 PM

^^^^^
same here

all the best with your recovery sir..

Darkhorse 03-25-2006 07:53 PM

Thanks guys..Just don't let my muscle mass die in vain!..:D

Just be careful and I hope noone else goes through this nightmare!

Frontline 03-25-2006 09:10 PM

Sucks that it actually did turn out to be a tear. I think we all had a hunch that it was a tear by how you were describing the hard lump in the shoutbox, that seemed to be a dead giveaway along with the bruising you got a few days later.

On a more positive look, be thankful you don't need to have surgery to get it repaired. Thats a whole nother can of worms you luckily won't have to open.

Hope you have a speedy recovery.

Darkhorse 03-25-2006 09:31 PM

Thanks all. I was reading up on this and think I may only have a grade I tear.

Muscle strains/tears are graded according to the degree of muscle fibers involved.

Grade I: overstretching of a few muscle fibers with less than 10 percent actual fibers tearing. No palpable defect in the muscle.

Grade II: a partial tear of the muscle fibers usually between 10 and 50 percent of the fibers. A definite palpable defect in the muscle belly.

Grade III: an extensive tear or complete rupture of the muscle fibers. From 50 to 100 percent destruction. Very large palpable depression in the muscle. The muscle may be torn away completely. There is no possibility of normal contraction.

There's no defect in the muscle, and only a tiny lump. Judging by this, I think it's Grade A. HOPEFULLY!! Probably between a I and II. The surgeon will know more.

Kane 03-26-2006 05:50 AM

I had a Grade II!!! :hbang:

I wish you a speedy recovery bro...I know from the short time I've been here that time away from the gym would absolutely drive you nuts. In the words of a great man, Ronnie Coleman once said...."[This injury] ain't nothin but a peanut.......yeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhh buuuuuuudddddaaaaaayyyyy......booooooo"

Dr X 03-26-2006 07:23 AM

Weren't we just talking about this. I did the same thing just over a year ago. If that just happended it's going to look a lot worse in a few day. My left side turned completly black. I mean black it was so nasty and the brusing was about the size of a hand. Did it the same way, straight bar bench. I was just doing a normal but somewhat heavy lift and it just tore for no reason. If it wasn't for the quick thinking of my partner I would of dropped it. Mine was a Grade II tear.

Good luck bro. You will heal but be careful for a while, if you tear it more the recover will take a long time.

EricT 03-26-2006 09:40 AM

I Thought I remembered you had said this, Dr X. We were talking about it in the shoutbox.

ChinPieceDave667 03-26-2006 10:14 AM

Damn that sucks. Get better man. I hope all recovery goes well.

verbatimreturned 03-26-2006 01:57 PM

0311 the pic isnt working for me...... i guess my computer doesnt wanna work right today. Anther quick question how does this effect your job man, arent u a bodyguard?

Dr X 03-26-2006 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verbatimreturned
0311 the pic isnt working for me...... i guess my computer doesnt wanna work right today. Anther quick question how does this effect your job man, arent u a bodyguard?

Hopefully he dosent' have do get bad on someone and his rep will keep him out of trouble for a while.

Darkhorse 03-26-2006 04:07 PM

Thanks guys..Hey X, how long did it take you to heal? What did you have to do according to the doctor?

Darkhorse 03-26-2006 04:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's another pic!

Darkhorse 03-27-2006 01:13 AM

I found this whole thread just now that's an impressive read. Basically, the guy first got a partial tear, waited a few weeks, then went back to the barbell flat bench. Not a good idea! After lifting heavy with flat barbell, he received a full tear.

http://www.chadnicholls.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=35346

Dr X 03-27-2006 03:28 PM

I sent you a PM

911 03-27-2006 05:22 PM

Good luck bro, wish you the best.

Darkhorse 03-28-2006 03:49 AM

Thanks for everyone's support. I will add that in my opinion, I think it had a lot to do with the superdrol I was taking. All of week three had my muscles feeling very tight. Couple that with a higher risk exercise like flat barbell bench and tearing my muscle doesn't sound too out there.

I'll add that I've never had a problem with flat bench in 9 years..Half that time benching low to mid 300's with a natural max of 405x2. Form has always been perfect.. :clit:

_Wolf_ 03-28-2006 05:41 AM

^^^^ dude... your scaring me....

shit... thank GOD it wasnt a level 3 man...! all the best in your recovery...

911 03-30-2006 06:45 PM

I was wondering if you think your fascia stretching played roll in your injury? Could it have contributed in any way to a possible weakness in the muscle you were previously unaware of? :33:

Darkhorse 04-02-2006 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911
I was wondering if you think your fascia stretching played roll in your injury? Could it have contributed in any way to a possible weakness in the muscle you were previously unaware of? :33:

No, a muscle tear is from a hard contraction, not fascia stretch. I also don't believe that had anything to do with it either because I've been doing the loaded stretches for over a year without incident. I do see your line of thinking.

I am almost 100% certain that it was the superdrol that was the underlining factor. If anyone considers using SD, I recommend that they stay away from high risk exercises like the flat bench, and also to keep your same progression in weights...(ie. don't make big jumps in weight).

In other news, I went to the doctor's the other day and he wasn't especially helpful. He took a quick look at it and said that it was a light tear where the tendon turns into muscle..Kinda like saying the grey area in between black (tendon) and white (muscle).. He specifically said that I can resume weight lifting, but to exclude any chest pressing so it can heal. He also said to start stretching it out once a day so there won't be a lot of scar tissue.

I wish I could've got an mri done, but he said it wasn't that bad of an injury..I was lucky. He said that the bruising will last for a few months more, but within 2-3 months max I'll be good to go to start building back up my chest.

_Wolf_ 04-02-2006 04:47 AM

well, all the best in your recovery and i'm GLAD that its not too serious....

2-3 months in comparison to a lifetime sounds much better....

all the best 0311....

Darkhorse 04-02-2006 04:49 AM

My plan now is to start HST (15 RM) excluding chest of course on Monday. I know two weeks total out of the gym was the best route to take. Now I'm gonna have to take it slow and build back up to where I was just before the injury. I picked HST (15, 10) because it uses light weights and also due to my two week deconditioning. After 4 weeks of that, I'm going to move into DC Training. At least with the same split, same exercises, and only a few exercises RP'ed. At this time it'll have been 6 weeks without any chest pressing. So, I'm going to start off with light dumbbell work and go from there. Maybe something like incline dumbbell, starting off with 40 lb dumbbells, stopping just short of failure..Then the next time doing 45 x 22 reps (or something), ect...Once I get up there in weight, I'll reset with a slight decline and 40 lb dumbbells to failure, and go from there..IMO, this is a super way to keep it light while conditioning my chest for future heavy weights during my official DC blast. :hbang:

The above plan I specifically designed to keep me from moving really heavy weight. It's the only solution I can think of that will prevent me from going insane with the heavy shit. :fest30: I'm pretty positive everyone here knows how I am. :hbang:

_Wolf_ 04-02-2006 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311
I'm pretty positive everyone here knows how I am. :hbang:

yeah we sure do :D

Darkhorse 04-03-2006 04:29 PM

Another update. First day back to the gym today in over two weeks. I'll note that Vicodin certainly helped decondition my muscles fo' sho'. :D

I'm glad I picked HST to get back in the gym with because of the lighter weight selection and added frequency. It was tough, but my pec felt great throughout. I did some dumbbell shoulder presses and felt terrific. I plan to finish out 4 weeks (2 weeks 15's, 2 weeks 10's) before I re-evaluate my pec and figure out where to go from there.

Dr X 04-03-2006 06:58 PM

So are you purple and black yet?

Darkhorse 04-03-2006 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr X
So are you purple and black yet?

Not anymore. Now I just have a quarter sized black patch just to the side of my nipple. Other than that, everything else cleared up rather quickly. I guess it was a good idea taking 2 weeks completely off from the gym vs. only one. My strength is still surprisingly here. :fest30:

Dr X 04-03-2006 07:36 PM

Sounds good. you did the right thing. Great recover, a testament to your good health.

Darkhorse 04-05-2006 10:35 PM

I pray this don't happen to anyone here, but if it does, here's some things I am/been doing to heal...As well as some mistakes I made. I've been leap-frogging from forum to forum and haven't found a thing about this whole process so I'll post a quick something here for future reference...

The tear

The Good:

- After it happened, I re-racked the weight.
- I applied an ice pack in 20 minute intervals while watching tv.

The Bad:

- I did a few heavy sets of JS Rows before I iced the site. :D Bad idea. The reason being because when a muscle tears, it bleeds. Your goal is to try and minimize/stop the bleeding. If this happens to you, immediately go home and ice it ASAP. This mistep IMO attributed to my insane amount of swelling.

...And the Ugly:

- After a few hours of icing the area, I decided to use a heating pad thinking it would help. Unfortunately, according to my doc, the heating pad encourages the swelling/bleeding. So in essence, the icing prevented/minimized bleeding, then the heating pad encouraged bleeding. :swordfight: In my defense, I didn't know at the time it was a tear, so I naturally figured it would help. The doc said that ice should be applied as much of the day as possible (in intervals) for at the very least 3-5 days. After about a week, the heating pad can come into the picture.

Recovery AWAY from the gym

The doc basically said that I had a minor pec tear and should stay out of the gym for a few weeks, and not do chest pressing for at least 1-2 months. So what I did was take 2 complete weeks away from the gym. In that time I kept protein high while trying to keep carbs low since I wasn't doing anything beyond eating Vicodin and playing some xbox.

After the two weeks off, I decided on doing HST training because of the higher reps and lower [initial] weight. This gives me a 2 week mesocycle of 15 reps, and another 2 week meso with 10 reps. In my opinion, three full body workouts with a very high rep range is ideal after a prolonged layoff nursing an injury however minor. Of course this excludes any chest pressing of any kind. The following is my selections for the 15 rep mesocycle. I put in some extra isolations even though it's in no way "optimal".. Reason being, I'm trying to increase my overall fitness level and conditioning, not focusing on gaining mass. If I was, it would be only compounds and 40 lbs heavier at the very least. :clit:

15 Rep Mesocycle: 1 set per exercise

Workout A

Leg Press (Not the easy sled you could load a piano on! The one w/ ROM)
Leg Extensions
Pullthroughs
Shoulder Press (db, seated)
Side Laterals
Cable Pressdowns (Picked these over skullcrushers because it minimized pecs)
Pulldowns
Cable Rows
Calves

Workout B

Hack Press Machine (Very difficult. Allows A2G baby)
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls (seated)
Shoulder Press (same)
High Pulls
Rev. Grip Pressdowns (1 handed, again to minimize pec recruitment)
Hammer Pulldowns (Underhanded)
Cable Rows (Wider grip)
Calves

Monday: A
Wednesday: B
Friday: A

Monday: B
Wednesday: A
Friday: B

The actual weight selection was common sense. Legs can take a pounding, same with back. Shoulder db presses are lighter than I obviously could go. Full ROM. I turn my hands inboard almost resting the db's on my shoulders every rep. Deliberately slow, both up and down.

ChinPieceDave667 04-06-2006 09:33 AM

glad to see your doing what you can to stay in the gym and stay on the healing path. Good luck man and as always keep us posted.

EricT 04-06-2006 09:49 AM

Honestly, I think an injury thread with different info on WHAT to do and WHAT not to do would be a good idea for a sticky. And I mean as many medical sources as possible. I don't think most people have a clue how to handle these types of injuries. What your doc told you fits exactly with the info I found after you got hurt.

Darkhorse 04-08-2006 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinPieceDave667
glad to see your doing what you can to stay in the gym and stay on the healing path. Good luck man and as always keep us posted.

Thanks a lot Dave...And everyone else :hbang:

Eric, that's a great idea. I tried for an entire night shift searching and came up with the same 'ol shit. Either we could continue this one, or maybe you could start another. Either way, doing what we do is very dangerous no matter which way you slice it. Having a wealth of info like this could've probably both shaved a week off for recovery and given me a better positive attitude to know that I won't be out for 6-12 months, but more like 1-2. :240:

EricT 04-08-2006 08:06 AM

Hmmmm....how bout I cut and paste from this one and then add what I can find...to the training section? The idea being that people can get right to the pertinent info. I'll add the usual warning of course not to use the thread in place of a doctor's visit.

Darkhorse 04-17-2006 01:19 AM

Damn, I just wrote a huge post and before I posted I got logged out!

Now I don't feel like rewriting everything so here's the Revised I..

It's been a full month of recovery since the tear and my chest looks and feels great. The last two weeks of 15's IMO really helped speed the recovery and elliminate the remaining bruising. For my next two week mesocycle, I'm doing some light chest pressing staying on machines for 15-20 reps. I picked incline hammer press and incline smythe..Mainly for their fixed plane of motion.

Here's my next two weeks: HST 10 RM [15-20 chest/calves]

Workout A

A2G Squats
Leg Curls
Leg Extensions
Hammer Inclines
Shoulder Press (db)
Skullcrushers
Pulldowns (Reverse grip)
Cable Rows (Wide grip)
Calves

Workout B

Deadlifts
Leg Curls
Leg Extensions
Incline Smythe
Shoulder Press (db)
Reverse Grip Pressdowns
Pulldowns (Wide grip, front)
Incline Curls

Darkhorse 04-18-2006 01:38 AM

I know I didn't write it down in the above post, but at the end of my workout I incorperated some light cable crossovers (low pulley) for a hard 15 reps [3-2-3 tempo]. This IMO really helps condition my pecs without using my [stronger for now] supporting cast. The crossover starts low, flexing in an upward motion to put emphasis on my mid/upper pecs. Rehabilitation and conditioning are all cables are good for...(I had to add that)..

Darkhorse 06-14-2006 05:30 PM

Well, it's been almost three months since I've touched a barbell for flat or inclines aside from the infamous smith machine. Today was the first time I did both just to get a feel for it. I felt terrific, no hint of any problems whatsoever. Of course my weights decreased greatly, but I'll get it back rather quickly. My flat bench went from doing sets of 5 with 355 down to about 275 for a set of 5. I just ramped up the weight lifting really slowly. Not too bad considering it's been so long since, and not to mention the first month of recovery had NO chest pressing at all really. Incline barbell I worked up to a set of 5 with 245. Motivating to see I haven't lost TOO much.

Just wanted to follow up.

_Wolf_ 06-14-2006 07:32 PM

^^^congrats sir......

Anuj


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