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Open Conversation discussion on Pros?, within the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Pitysister you use your tongue prettier than a 20 dollar whore I am trying to find this ...


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Old 09-03-2008, 01:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pitysister View Post
you use your tongue prettier than a 20 dollar whore
I am trying to find this quote from Romeo and Juliet to throw at you and I cannot fucking remember it!!!! And I don't have the book either....damnit!

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but you're very right. when is moving day for you? i'm very excited for the results.
3 Weeks after this one. Well 4 weeks if you count moving day week as the 4th week. After that I am going to be doing this 3 day a week full body type routine which should be kick ass

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Old 09-03-2008, 01:21 PM   #12
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When I said training economy I wasn't talking about marketting. I meant that it is a lift that for many elite pro's will simply "take" more than it will give.

The thing about Bill Starr is that all sorts of people quote but nobody seems to have actually read him This reference about him comes from an article from Muscular Development mag in 1969 where he outlined his method for increasing the deadlift without deadlifting...it was basically high pulls, powercleans, and goodmornings. Just pointing that out because it only fits if it fits.

He also, however, DID NOT believe in training the deadlift. You read "The Strongest Shall Survive" and there is two paragraphs on it headed Omit the Dead Lift.

He said it has too high a casualty rate. Too hard on the lumbar. Course think about what you are "ommitting" when your try to replace deadlifting with olympic pulls. You are omitting trying to pull a HEAVY ass weight from the floor with vim and vigour . Matter of fact you DO NOT want to start your cleans and other fast as that will just mess up you setup for the second phase.

YET he believed that goodmorning could replace this BUT deads are bad for the lower back. Ummm...put 2 and 2 together. The guy just didn't like deadlifts. He didn't put deadlifts in the programs of his athletes.

I'm not saying he is right or wrong. And I agree, of course that some people will do better not deadlifting as often. I'm also not doubting OF COURSE that the way Starr chose to skin a cat worked just perfectly for him.

But think about it. If I were to say: "Squats suck. You'll injure your knees and your back. They are not worth it." And then I proceeded to write a program about how to increase your squats...you'd probably take that with a grain of salt. Always consider the particular box people come from. So often what they write is saying a lot about themselves rather than people in general.


So I agree with Anuj about blanket statements from authority figures. But I also agree with the general notion that some people will do better not deadlifting as often. That's not me so much but everybody ain't me and I certainly can't do reg deads as often as I once did.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:26 PM   #13
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I am trying to find this quote from Romeo and Juliet to throw at you and I cannot fucking remember it!!!! And I don't have the book either....damnit!


i found it:

Romeo: O, wilt thou leave me so unsatisfied?
Juliet: What satisfaction canst thou have tonight?
Romeo: The exchange of thy love's faithful vow for mine.
Juliet: I gave thee mine before thou didst request it!




i too find it weird not deadlifting yet doing power cleans and good mornings. Gm's were one thing that definitely did not feel good on my back

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Old 09-03-2008, 01:40 PM   #14
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This is for Darkhorse, btw. We once had a conversation about speed deads versus cleans and the like for helping the deadlift. He was all about speed deads and I was on the fence. This was before I really got speed deads rotated into my training regularly. '

I was blueskying it about power and all that and he basically pointed out that the math didn't mean much to him. Well....he was right. I'll take speed deads over cleans and such for improving the dead anyday

I love doing snatches and jerks and sometimes cleans and high pulls. But they are not the same as a deadlift. They just aren't.

Definitely beginners and intermediates should probalby be deadlifting (health allowing) for a while. Most beginners find deadlifting "easy" when they first do them And they should be able to experiment and learn what works best for them and how much of it. It is funny how much a deadlift takes out of you as opposed to a "similar" movement.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:50 PM   #15
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Pity: That wasn't the quote I was referring to.

Eric: I think you've raised some very very good points (as always). And I am also all for not deadlifting too often. There is always a middle ground that people tend to forget regarding these lifts...
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