Pros?
 

Howcome you rarely see the pros doing deads? Aside from Ronnie, I've never seen any vids of pros doing them.

I've seen some guys do them. The best way to bring your DL up is to not DL. That quote came from Rippetoe, I believe. It is a great mass building movement. You're right though...I have seen many, many more squat videos than DL videos. It could have something to do with a potential for injury I suppose.

It's about training economy and the effects you want. The typical pro..all juiced up and with a marked abilty to gain slabs of muscle through "bodybulding" style training...regular deadlifts just are not economical for a lot of them.

I can elaborate but I think you catch my drift.

I think this can be somewhat of a misleading statement.

When I completely stopped deadlifting, my squat hit an all-time high of 335 but my deadlift was stuck at like 225.

I think there is a balance that must exist. Some DL variant must be done at all times - whether it be rack deads, snatch grips, etc etc...they key is to for your body to be able to recall the lift correctly.

Very true my friend. Thanks for clarifying. When I said (and he said) that the best way to bring up a deadlift is by not deadlifting, I was talking about a standard, conventional deadlift. Squats, DL variations, GHRs, etc will all bring up a DL. It's interesting how the carryover between exercises works. My favorite lift for bringing up my DL is A2G squats...and after that, some variation of leg curls. Some people can get very strong by DLing (heavy, conventional) every week, but they don't make up the majority of trainees.

No, Bill Starr actually as per my journal. :) Beginners and intermediates probably shouldn't get away from deadlifting IMHO. For many others, that statement is true. I could walk away from deadlifting for months, come back, and not miss a beat... Which was what Ross is talking about in his ellaboration. If I'm doing heavy squats, gluteham's, ect ect ect and increasing weight, I don't need to bother deadlifting to know it's getting increased. Heavy sled dragging people! :D

Even when I was powerbuilding, I dropped deads for a few mesocycles, came back, and in a few weeks of a strength cycle with IA hit a new all time record.

Getting to the question. Pro's have very big supplement cabinets if you catch my drift. They don't need to increase their GH and testosterone production w/ deadlifts lol. They can make a living doing hammer strength shrugs whereas the other 75% of us would be much better served with the full body compounds that made this nation great! Additionally, remember the pro's already have the muscle mass that they got DOING deadlifts. So they're worried more about aesthetics at that point... Which is funny since they incorperate so much HGH that they have pot bellies w/ abs lol.

:biglaugh: Very true.....

I saw this one vid. where Marc. inhaled deeply. Looked like an albino gorilla!

I agree with you, DH.

If one stops doing direct deadlifts and instead works on other lifts like:
Front Squats (Free + Box)
Snatch Grip
Rack Deads
GHRs
Unilateral Exercises
etc

One can still come back and nail a new PR. Hell, Eric Cressey has me doing exactly this.

However, my point is that when an uninformed person reads something like " The best way to bring your DL up is to not DL." from Starr or Rippetoe or anyone else whom people hold in high authority because of their accomplishments, it can lead to thinking that skipping deads and only focussing on squats equals a new deadlift PR down the road. This thought is not correct and therefore, such a blanket statement can be misleading.

This is all I was trying to point out.

From personal experience, I haven't done heavy deadlifts in over 8 weeks. All I have been focussing on is rack deads, snatch deads, speed deads. And I think I am progressing pretty well.

I don't think PROs do deads because like Eric said: it isn't a commercially selling lift. People are more inclined to buy a supplement endorsed by a PRO who is doing biceps versus him doing a big squat or deadlift. It's all about existing misconceptions and going with the flow because it seems to be working.

you use your tongue prettier than a 20 dollar whore :)

but you're very right. when is moving day for you? i'm very excited for the results.

I am trying to find this quote from Romeo and Juliet to throw at you and I cannot fucking remember it!!!! And I don't have the book either....damnit!

3 Weeks after this one. Well 4 weeks if you count moving day week as the 4th week. After that I am going to be doing this 3 day a week full body type routine which should be kick ass :)

When I said training economy I wasn't talking about marketting. I meant that it is a lift that for many elite pro's will simply "take" more than it will give.

The thing about Bill Starr is that all sorts of people quote but nobody seems to have actually read him :) This reference about him comes from an article from Muscular Development mag in 1969 where he outlined his method for increasing the deadlift without deadlifting...it was basically high pulls, powercleans, and goodmornings. Just pointing that out because it only fits if it fits.

He also, however, DID NOT believe in training the deadlift. You read "The Strongest Shall Survive" and there is two paragraphs on it headed Omit the Dead Lift.

He said it has too high a casualty rate. Too hard on the lumbar. Course think about what you are "ommitting" when your try to replace deadlifting with olympic pulls. You are omitting trying to pull a HEAVY ass weight from the floor with vim and vigour :biglaugh:. Matter of fact you DO NOT want to start your cleans and other fast as that will just mess up you setup for the second phase.

YET he believed that goodmorning could replace this BUT deads are bad for the lower back. Ummm...put 2 and 2 together. The guy just didn't like deadlifts. He didn't put deadlifts in the programs of his athletes.

I'm not saying he is right or wrong. And I agree, of course that some people will do better not deadlifting as often. I'm also not doubting OF COURSE that the way Starr chose to skin a cat worked just perfectly for him.

But think about it. If I were to say: "Squats suck. You'll injure your knees and your back. They are not worth it." And then I proceeded to write a program about how to increase your squats...you'd probably take that with a grain of salt. Always consider the particular box people come from. So often what they write is saying a lot about themselves rather than people in general.


So I agree with Anuj about blanket statements from authority figures. But I also agree with the general notion that some people will do better not deadlifting as often. That's not me so much but everybody ain't me and I certainly can't do reg deads as often as I once did.

i found it:

Romeo: O, wilt thou leave me so unsatisfied?
Juliet: What satisfaction canst thou have tonight?
Romeo: The exchange of thy love's faithful vow for mine.
Juliet: I gave thee mine before thou didst request it!




i too find it weird not deadlifting yet doing power cleans and good mornings. Gm's were one thing that definitely did not feel good on my back :)

This is for Darkhorse, btw. We once had a conversation about speed deads versus cleans and the like for helping the deadlift. He was all about speed deads and I was on the fence. This was before I really got speed deads rotated into my training regularly. '

I was blueskying it about power and all that and he basically pointed out that the math didn't mean much to him. Well....he was right. I'll take speed deads over cleans and such for improving the dead anyday :)

I love doing snatches and jerks and sometimes cleans and high pulls. But they are not the same as a deadlift. They just aren't.

Definitely beginners and intermediates should probalby be deadlifting (health allowing) for a while. Most beginners find deadlifting "easy" when they first do them :D And they should be able to experiment and learn what works best for them and how much of it. It is funny how much a deadlift takes out of you as opposed to a "similar" movement.

Pity: That wasn't the quote I was referring to. :biglaugh:

Eric: I think you've raised some very very good points (as always). And I am also all for not deadlifting too often. There is always a middle ground that people tend to forget regarding these lifts...