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The Death Penalty

Open Conversation discussion on The Death Penalty, within the General Discussion; Originally Posted by mad matt So it appears the consensus is that the death penalty is for those that commit, ...


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Old 12-10-2008, 05:58 PM   #11
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So it appears the consensus is that the death penalty is for those that commit, as Wolf so eloquently puts it, the most heinous of crimes.

Why? Is it punishment ? Is it revenge? Is it to gratify the hungry masses? And in all those years of executing these people, has it deterred others?
Actually, I have been thinking (after Reading Dave's post) and I think I change my stance....I think saying the death penalty is cool would be mostly out of revenge for me. I think along Dave's lines: torture. Those who commit heinous crimes should be tortured and made to suffer. That is punishment. Death is the easy way out.

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Old 12-11-2008, 06:15 AM   #12
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I can only say thank god its not up to Dave or Wolf. But lets just say we did execute these people or even torture them, how many innocent people would die or suffer before we stopped?

An example of this is a man called Stephan Kiszko. In 1975 he was arrested and later convicted of the murder of the 11 year old Lesley Molseed. She was snatched close to home, taken to the moors stabbed many times. The killer then masturbated over her before leaving her to die, what a horrific way for an 11 year old to die.

Kiszko was convicted for a number of reasons, first it was said his sperm matched that found on Lesley's body. The police said they found pornographic material in his car, and worst of all he confessed to her murder, case closed?

Kiszko spent many years in prison, he was mentaly tortured and beaten often. However we now know the facts.

Kiszko suffered from hypogonadism, which ment he couldnt produce sperm. Pornographic materials were never found. So why did he confess? Kiszco was slow minded (his mental state was in question long before 1975) He spent three days being questioned by police, so simply gave in. Later he went on to say, i told lies because it seemed to please the police. Because the police were under pressure they just decided to pick Kiszco out, he was an easy target. The police lied and hid evidence to help gain the conviction of Kiszco.

This is just one case of many, so again i ask how many innocent people would have to suffer??

Do we think that murdering or torturing these people will help prevent the next crime? Albert Pierrepoint didnt think so and he hung more men and women than any other executioner in the UK. He said it was a complete waste of life and we learnt nothing.

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Old 12-11-2008, 06:25 AM   #13
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By the way in 2007 Ronald Castree was given life for the murder of Lesley Molseed, this time the conviction is safe, and he will never be released.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:13 AM   #14
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I can only say thank god its not up to Dave or Wolf.
This is true. If I was ruler of the earth a lot of things would be different...

But I would like to add - and I think I may be speaking for Dave as well here, that I (or we) were referring to those specifically guilty and proven guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever. In the sense...lets say there is a guy who raped his daughter for 13 years straight, and then the police found out. Is there any way he could be innocent? Nope. 13 years of raping his daughter warrants a lifetime of torture.

There is no way I am saying that anybody and everybody who is accused of something and sentenced away should be put up for torture. Fuck no. I am referring to those guys (and gals) who are guilty and there is no way they could be innocent. If the police walk in on someone molesting a child or raping his mother (it is a sick world) then there cannot be any shred of doubt. These guys definitely deserve torture.

Your argument is based on "what if the courts are wrong"? Well. If the courts are wrong then the courts need to be fixed. Why should a more lenient punishment be given to someone who is guilty just because we (as in the government) can't keep our own record straight in court?
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:44 AM   #15
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The reason for leniency in the courts is because there is such a huge effort to not convict an innocent person. If you catch and punish more guilty people, then you will inherently catch and punish more innocent people. At the risk of not punishing innocent people, more guilty people get off the hook. That's the way it goes. The court system in the US is pretty good. I haven't seen any that are significantly better in catching guilty people & I think that has a lot to do with the burden/responsibility placed on law enforcement. They do a pretty good job. But like Anuj was saying...if you catch someone in the act & there is no doubt, then there should be a separate set of consequences.

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Old 12-11-2008, 08:33 AM   #16
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^^^ Agreed. The US Court system is one of the best.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:45 AM   #17
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No, the courts are very good, its the evidence that is put to the courts. The Birmingham 6, Guilford 4, Bridgewater 3, Cardiff 2 and many many more would have been sentenced to death because the evidence put to a jury couldnt be disputed. In all these horrific cases the police lied and kept evidence hidden that would of otherwise shown them innocent.

But i hear what your saying, more often than not we do catch the right people. But forget torture, it will never happen. My problem is this, over here we lock them up and forget about them, in other countries their put to death, either way thats the end of them. Why just do this? A head doctor who worked in a criminal hospital for over 30 years made his thoughts on the matter public. His idea was this. Instead of just locking them up and throwing the away the key, why dont we give them small incentives, things like two hours of fresh air, maybe a tv. In return they must disclose any information asked,in doing this we may learn from them. If we can learn and find the real reasons they do what they do, then maybe just maybe we can at least reduce these horrific crimes.

I might be wrong about this but im so sick of seeing these crimes being reported over and over again. Know one seems concerned with finding out why.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:01 AM   #18
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Yes the US courts are very good we saw that in the original OJ Simpson trial!! If a policeman and scientist decide to make up evidence agaisnt you then its not the fault of the courts when your found guilty.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:32 PM   #19
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Default I'm a little late in this thread... but,

I support the death penalty and feel that it's most important function is giving closure to the loved ones of the victim.

It's not a criminal deterrant... those fuckers are too stupid or mentally screwed to fear something. Hell, some of the serial killers actually wanted to get caught....

Another thought.... jail them and put em in general population, (look what happened to Bundy).

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Old 12-11-2008, 01:38 PM   #20
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Default My bad... I meant Dahmer

Bundy was executed... but Dahmer got f'd up by another inmate
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