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Personal Journals discussion on Casey's Training Log, within the Members Section; Originally Posted by Ross86 Best of luck. You're not going to be making optimal gains and you'll be wasting a ...


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Old 11-10-2009, 06:12 PM   #11
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Best of luck. You're not going to be making optimal gains and you'll be wasting a lot of time and effort, but you should still make some progress. I just don't understand why you wouldn't do something better.
Whose to say I'll be wasting time? The program is geared more towards muscular hypertrophy, rather than strength gains. The function of the two strength days isn't to gain, but rather maintain or limit the loss of the strength you've acquired while trying to increase muscular endurance, hypertrophy, etc. I know it's not optimal to either strength or hypertophy, but this is simply a means for me to cut down permanently to a lower weight class while maintaining strength and then follow traditional Westside principles and continue on my path.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:14 PM   #12
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So your trying to drop 30lbs . When is your meet ?

It's going to be hard to keep your numbers climbing while dropping weight , espically with this much training and not that much recovery time.

What is your total calorie intake ?
I don't have a meet coming up until mid January, this really isn't to do a quick cut for a meet. I'm trying to keep this fat off that I've accumulated going from 180 lbs - 230 lbs. I'm going to work my way down to somewhere in the low-mid 190's and compete in the 198 lbs class, then eventually work my way SLOWLY back up to the 220's.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:34 PM   #13
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Whose to say I'll be wasting time? The program is geared more towards muscular hypertrophy, rather than strength gains. The function of the two strength days isn't to gain, but rather maintain or limit the loss of the strength you've acquired while trying to increase muscular endurance, hypertrophy, etc. I know it's not optimal to either strength or hypertophy, but this is simply a means for me to cut down permanently to a lower weight class while maintaining strength and then follow traditional Westside principles and continue on my path.
Having two high intensity strength days back to back is just going to accrue CNS fatigue faster. At the very least you'd want to spread those two out. Why back squat and then deadlift on consecutive days? That's a very poor idea. You're also doing a couple of additional back movements on both days. There is soooo much volume on your hypertrophy days. If you give a decent effort in the gym, you'll burn out in a couple of weeks. It's possible that you're a freak of nature that the laws of physiology don't apply to, and you'll do really well. You're trying to reinvent the wheel by coming up with a totally unconventional workout. There is no way that you're going follow this program to a "T" and have optimal gains. It will have to be modified a lot...even if you ignore me now, you'll end up making changes later because it's not a good routine. You'd be better off IMO to start with something realistic.

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Old 11-10-2009, 06:41 PM   #14
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Also, you're not going to be packing on muscle when you're cutting. It's just not going to happen. Even if you go slow. So why are you doing a "hypertrophy" workout when you could do something more standard? Keep the compound lifts high intensity, plenty of volume on your accessory stuff, have a caloric deficit, and add some cardio. That makes a LOT more sense. To me at least. Maybe you can explain why your plan is better...?

You could even loosely follow the westside template.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:43 PM   #15
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Having two high intensity strength days back to back is just going to accrue CNS fatigue faster. At the very least you'd want to spread those two out. Why back squat and then deadlift on consecutive days? That's a very poor idea. You're also doing a couple of additional back movements on both days. There is soooo much volume on your hypertrophy days. If you give a decent effort in the gym, you'll burn out in a couple of weeks. It's possible that you're a freak of nature that the laws of physiology don't apply to, and you'll do really well. You're trying to reinvent the wheel by coming up with a totally unconventional workout. There is no way that you're going follow this program to a "T" and have optimal gains. It will have to be modified a lot...even if you ignore me now, you'll end up making changes later because it's not a good routine. You'd be better off IMO to start with something realistic.
I have such poor muscular endurance, from training the past three years never going past five reps in a set, that the weight I can handle on my "hypertrophy" days is laughable at best, which is why I probably don't burn out.

For example:
Back Squat 1RM ~ 500 lbs, past parallel
...I can only Back Squat 135 x 10-12, 225 x 5-8
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:51 PM   #16
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Also, you're not going to be packing on muscle when you're cutting. It's just not going to happen. Even if you go slow. So why are you doing a "hypertrophy" workout when you could do something more standard? Keep the compound lifts high intensity, plenty of volume on your accessory stuff, have a caloric deficit, and add some cardio. That makes a LOT more sense. To me at least. Maybe you can explain why your plan is better...?

You could even loosely follow the westside template.
Let me try to explain it a little better, by giving some background of my training. I started my first few years off with standard training regimens; Starting Strength, 5 x 5, etc.

I moved onto learning Westside principles and began to follow their training. However I always noticed my muscular endurance was shit, so even on repetition days I'd follow more closely to an 8x2 or 10x2 set/rep scheme, rather than traditional hypertrophy. I've learned that while trying to cut I make shit gains on Westside simply because I cannot "max-out" twice a week.

I've also learned that I'm a "deadlift more" lifter. I know that most people, especially when they starting moving some weight on deadlifts benefit from pulling once every other week, sometimes only once a month. This is not the case for me.

I simply can't do cardio, both because of a pre-existing injury (patellofemoral syndrome) that severely limits the cardio I can do and out of sheer boredom. This is why I see the "hypertrophy" workouts as a way to burn calories and also build up my dismal muscular endurance. I'm also a strong believer in being able to put on muscle while cutting, especially because I have alot of fat ~18% on me, I feel that I can successfully recomp because I'm cutting at such a slow rate.

Here's an example of what my week will look like:
Tuesday - Strength Workout 1-5RM, NEAR MAX
Wednesday - Strength Workout 75-85%RM region, NOT A MAX
Thursday - Off
Friday - Higher Rep Work
Saturday - Higher Rep Work
Sunday - Higher Rep Work
Monday - Off
Tuesday - Off
Wednesday - Repeat
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:52 PM   #17
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I forgot the most important part, because of the high workload and high demand on my CNS I'll be taking a de-load every 4-5 weeks.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:15 PM   #18
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I don't think you can blame not doing cardio on a injury. If you can workout you can do cardio. Walking is still cardio and I beleive not matter what you should always do cardio ( even if your trying to gain weight ). As for it being boaring , just find something that isin't.

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Old 11-10-2009, 07:57 PM   #19
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I'm with Ross on this. What you do could progress on this, then it's fine. But do I think it distributes fatigue correctly? No.

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Old 11-10-2009, 08:04 PM   #20
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I've actually just recently been cleared to do all cardio besides weighted cardio (farmer's walks, sled dragging) and running, so I may adjust my program into more of a typical three day full-body schedule with cardio on 2-3 of the off days.
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