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Doug's starting from scratch, need help!! Journal

Personal Journals discussion on Doug's starting from scratch, need help!! Journal, within the Members Section; Ok, thanks Eric, I'll try that config.....


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Old 09-13-2008, 03:52 PM   #41
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Ok, thanks Eric, I'll try that config..
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Old 09-14-2008, 02:52 PM   #42
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Sept 14/08

Wow.. Hurting today.. Every muscle that I've heretofore not paid attention to..

My traps, glutes, hamstrings..

Pre WO meal (one hour before):

Oats with cottage cheese and walnuts

Work-out C (kind of)



1 mile warm up run (15 min)

Some mobility drills..


Split Squat:

3 x 10 no weight (balance issues as it is!!)

Press:

2 x 10 x bar (trying to get my form down)
1 x 5 x 20lbs
1 x 5 x 40lbs
1 x 5 x 50lbs (this one was crap, so....)
2 x 5 x 40lbs

I'm having issues getting under the weight..

I'm sure (though I won't be able to tell till I video myself) that rather than getting under the weight, I'm just pushing the bar back a bit at the top of the motion. No problems locking out, need to work at squeezing my traps a bit more, though..

Next time I'll get my dad to tape me doing this stuff..


Chin ups:

x 10, 7, 6


Am I supposed to be doing these to failure?

Is the reason the reps are going down is I'm not waiting long enough in between sets?

Front and side plank 30 seconds each

Reverse bycycle 45x2



PWO shake (right after):

2 cups of OJ and 35g of protein powder.

Post WO meal (an hour after): 3 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, a 1.5" cube of cheddar, 1 orange, 1 tomato, 3 tbsp of salsa.

Cals for the day: 3200 protein: 310

Last edited by dougz; 09-14-2008 at 03:24 PM..
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Old 09-14-2008, 04:44 PM   #43
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On the press this is exactly why I advocated a honeymoon period with the lifts. As your are trying to get your form down and practicing getting under the weight you are also busy counting reps and sets. Sure it's lowish volume but the truth is you actually could have gotten better at doing them by, for instance doing only 2 or 3 reps at a time, if not less, resting, doing it again. Basically not letting a lot of fatigue creep in so you can really hone in the movement.

A great option after practicing that way would be to take a much lighter weight and doing some slightly higher reps after you feel confident. To sort of grease in the movement.

You do that a couple of times and you won't be saying things like
"I'm having trouble getting under the bar" WHILE you're in the midst of a programming environment where you're trying to load the bar every workout. And to boot..you'd probably start the workout with heavier weights. Because you WILL get better this way.

On the pullups you are good. It's normal for the reps to go down. If you want to take longer rest periods by all means go ahead and do so. You may get more reps per set that way and since the weight is being held constant, then right now pulling that weight MORE times is going to count for a lot.

You could always progressively shorten the rest periods later on if you wanted to.

When it comes to something that you are simply trying to get your reps up on, with the weight not changing then going to failure is a good way to go. You don't have to go to failure on every set but at least the last one. That's something that failure is good for, for the most part, increasing reps although it doesn't always have a big impact in terms of absolute strength and power.

Just going to failure on the pullups won't be a problem for you. This is since you already are able to do a good bit. If you could only do one or so total pullups it would be a whole different ballgame but you are obviously already good at them.

Good start on the training, Doug.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:09 PM   #44
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Well, I'll try to get my form down on the lifts, all of them..

But I don't see how taking a break from lifting is going to help me do them any better..

Sorry for being thick on this point.. :(

Do you mean don't worry about progressively lifting heavier each work-out?

Just doing 3 sets or so with no weights, till my form is good?

Like I say, I'll try to get tape of all the excersizes I'm doing (the problem ones, that is)..
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:11 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougz View Post
What is it you're suggesting?

Just doing 3 sets or so with no weights, till my form is good?
I don't think that is what Eric is suggesting. I actually think I know what Eric's saying but I think he's much much better at explaining himself...

But I do have something to say...

Quote:
Like I say, I'll try to get tape of all the excersizes I'm doing (the problem ones, that is)..
No. Tape them all. Not just the problem ones.

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Old 09-14-2008, 05:14 PM   #46
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Well, I thought I could spare you the planks, chin-ups, etc..

But ok..
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:18 PM   #47
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Well, I thought I could spare you the planks, chin-ups, etc..

But ok..
haha..

Oh in that case...

I thought you meant only those compound lifts which you were questioning yourself on...

but nah...stick with your original plan: give us all the compound lifts...sometimes multiple sets help here. Squat Deadlift etc etc
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:35 PM   #48
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Well I went into it a bit before. By no means am I saying take a break!

I don't want to get into this long explanation of all this cuz i know you don't want to read all that right now but I'll try to put it in a different way and I will compare my view to the "starting strength" view so that it's clear what I'm saying, even if you choose not to take my advice.

Lot's of time people like to use a concept but they refuse to take that concept to it's furthest extent. Because they are too busy making comprimises to "satisfiy" everyone.

So here is the kind of thing Rip and others will say, but notice that they treat all these statements as isolated in a way.

1. When you're learning a lift, heavy and correct are mutually exclusive. So Rip says that. You need to 'start light', basically.

2 Beginners will get stonger at first pretty much right off the bat no matter what they do. This is a period in resistance training that is known as "general adaptation". Rip says this too.

3. You must use a weight that is heavy enought to require proper form while not being so heavy you can't do it properly. Rip and others say that also.

4. Such and such reps and sets are best for a beginner as they will cause the "fastest possilbe" strength gain while ensuring recovery between workouts. Rip says that.

First notice that for any given individual there are some innate contradictions in all that.

Heavy, and fatigued (even a bit fatigued) can equal to the same thing. In other words it is true that you can't learn a lift with a weight that is too heavy. But for many, using a weight that is "heavy enough" and then forcing them into a prescribed route of sets and reps is doing the SAME THING. To learn a lift you DO NOT emphasive volume PERIOD. You emphasize QUALITY.

The more times you do it well, the faster you will get better at it.

While you are learning the lift, if you chose the same weight but instead of emphasing 3x5, you did something like sets of 2, 3, 1, 1,2,3, 2, 2 or whatever felt right with the rest you need to maintain quality....your going to end up lifting that weight with more quality volume as opposed to just volume and you also may just be lifting that weight more times.

Now the total workload may not be that different between what you did this time and what you would have done using my advice. BUT you could have concentrated more on getting under the bar. More rest would have facilitated more recovery therefore you could have practiced the lift MORE and still recovered. So on and so forth. Then when you have to start really counting the reps and sets and trying to load the bar every workout you at least feel like you have your form down.

Although form is always something you have to work on and tweak.

Is this making sense? I understand it goes again't many things that you've read.

I know, I know that rip says learning these lifts is a ten minute thing, lol. Well, learning the verbal cues is a ten minute minute thing. Where all these people are who became bench and squat masters in ten minutes...I don't know . I'm STILL working on perfecting little things.

So let me be clear. I am not talking about doing less. At least as much if not more. Just spreading out the reps more and allowing more rest in between. This will actually allow those beginning neural improvments to happen quicker.
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:48 PM   #49
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and after you get form down...then you can find some 5 rep maxes for each lift...cut back like...15-20 pounds on each and start there.

i would advise progressing at only 5 pounds per week...instead of 5 pounds per workout. cuz. that's just nuts

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Old 09-14-2008, 07:25 PM   #50
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Ok, that's clearer, thanks..

It's not so much that I'm lifting so much that my form is affected..

(well, it WAS, when I went too high when zeroing on what weight I need for my working sets.. Range of motion was affected and I didn't lock them out very well.. So I've done a couple of back-off sets to compensate).

It's that my form in general is probably weak, which I'm working on, and will get some proper feedback on that pronto, before I perpetuate any bad habits..

There's a trainer in town here that I found, and she should be able to help, there (I hope to God she's not some partial-squat advocate)...

She's built like a brick shit-house, though, and she's a registered kinesiologist, so that's 2 points in her favour..

I'll tape my lifts, too, and put them on here..
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