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Personal Journals discussion on HIThoppers Training Journal, within the Members Section; The problem I see here is no prioritization. Essentially everylift is being trained as if it were part of the ...


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Old 09-14-2007, 12:37 PM   #11
EricT
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The problem I see here is no prioritization. Essentially everylift is being trained as if it were part of the big three. And I will say bench and press can be chosen interchangeably as part of you big three. Trying to max out on everything on a weekly basis or even training everything with the same high intensity will force you into deloads uneccesarily.

Jeffo has made some good suggestions but the problems are still the same as your current setup. The TM was meant as a way to program the big lifts not as a comprehensive across the board training theory. Everything that is not a main lift needs to be treated as either an assistance or accessory and programmed accordingly. That would usually mean lower intensity and higher reps.

Anything will work for a while. But if you are trying to do weekly periodization and being forced into deloads so very often then there is a fundamental flaw. In that case it would be more efficient to simply load more aggressively and with more volume with the intention of overreaching in 4 to 6 weeks. Otherwise you are micromanaging yourself silly for nothing.

You need to pick either bench or press as your priority and use the other differently. Embrace higher rep ranges. Everything doesn't have to be 1 to 5 reps all the time. Some repeated effort or submaximal effort can and should be used also. . For instance with chins/pullups, and rows. Same thing with some pressing or anything else that is a secondary lift to the main lifts.

Quite simply, you need to comprimise and if you do I think you will see more longterm success without as much disruption.

BTW, there are easier and more efficient ways to do this. I would suggest a simple upper/lower setup.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 09-14-2007, 01:39 PM   #12
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Eric's post makes a lot of sense. Lots of good points to consider.

I don't think you need to necessarily pick only two lifts to work for heavy 3-5 rep sets though. Training a lift in the 5RM zone doesn't necessarily mean it becomes the priority lift. Westsiders often do their heavy singles on the ME lift, then get their heavy work on the supplement lift; GM's to the Squat, CGB to the Bench for example. That said, I definately agree that some prioritization is now a necessity as Eric has pointed out.

Just as an example, here's how my ME Upper looked the other day:

Bench 3x1
Press 1x5
CGB 3x8
Chin 4x8

The bench was my main lift and the press my supplementary press. The other stuff was assisstance / accessory and thus had higher reps, lower intensity and controlled rest periods. I've essentially prioritized the Squat and Bench, with the GM and Press or CGB as the major supplements to be worked heavy that day. You could perhaps start thinking along these lines as well.

I would also agree that an upper/lower split is a better option if you want to continue training 4 days a week. Essentially you've been doing 4 full body workouts a week for a long time now. Done great with it for sure, but it's probably time to organize things a bit differently. If you want to do 4 full body days still, then you'll definately have to start doing more light work instead of all the heavy days.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:30 PM   #13
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OK firstly thanks for the replies fellas

Lots of good things for me to think about.

Basically my main focus will be on squats benches and to a slightly lesser degree Chins.I want to hit 300 on the squat 225 on bench and maybe strap 50lbs to the waist for chins.I dont have a time frame in mind but those are my goals.

I'll think about what you both have suggeseted and post an idea for a routine asap.I will say there is 2 ideas floating around in my head already.

1- just go with a very similiar version of the TM as described in PP. this will reduce my workout days to 3 per week, this could give me the chance to have fewer carbo days and aid with some fatloss too also I've been carrying an inflamed right shoulder for quite a while now that I hurt doing some stupid ass high rep incline smith benching , squats and benches flare it up from time to time and hitting both lifts in 1 day might help with that, leaving extra days for recovery.

2- stay with the 4 day and adjust the rep ranges maybe working with 3's exclusively as Jeff suggested, also changing the rep ranges for the other assistance lifts too.


Hmm Ill give it some thought and get back to ya!!

AWWW man now Im intermediate I actually have to think about this stuff properly

Thanks so much fellas
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:51 PM   #14
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OK been reading and thinking all day!!

Mon
Bench 1x3 or 1x5 or 1RM as weeks progress
Chin 1x5
CGBP 3x8
Curl 2x12

Tues
Squat 1x3 or 1x5 or 1RM
Deadlift 3x8 (things have been moving slow on these at higher weights maybe time to lower the intensity and up the vol?? thoughts pls
Ab work

Thurs
Bench start at 5x3 and increase sets as needed???
Chin 30 reps in 4 sets before weight is added or I was thinking of tryin some 8x3?
Press 5x5

Fri
Squat start at 5x3 and increase sets as needed
1 arm rows 3x12 ( I cant go heavy on these cos I train at home and the big 10kg and higher plates hit my chest before I reach a peak contraction!)
Maybe some rep work with SLDL or good mornings


The other choice is a simple 3 day routine

Mon- Squat, bench and chin all PR attempts

Wed- lighter squat 2x5 or box squat light 3x3, Deadlift 3x8 and Press 5x5

Fri- Squat 5x3 sets increased as needed
Bench 5x3 sets increased as needed
Chin 30 reps in 4 sets before weight increase

No assistence work like curls etc

Let me know guys Im very new to having to think this hard about training!!

Cheers HIThopper
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:01 AM   #15
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Oh and the reason I put the stress workouts at the end of the week is because it just fits well with my work schedule, I didnt think it would be a huge deal?!
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:34 AM   #16
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Ok so I just got a call from work and my work schedule has been completely turned on its head (bastards)

so Id probably go with this if I took this routine

Mon- Squat 5x3 sets increased as needed
Bench 5x3 sets increased as needed
Chin 30 reps in 4 sets before weight increase

Wed- lighter squat 2x5 or box squat light 3x3, Deadlift 3x8 and Press 5x5

Fri- Squat, bench and chin all PR attempts

also i just realised I would have had to rearrange the light day with stress day on fri
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
also i just realised I would have had to rearrange the light day with stress day on fri
So what is it you want to do? I'm confused
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:16 PM   #18
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At the moment I'm leaning towards the 3 day, I havent actually squatted 3 times per week ever, and it would probably help me keep my form nailed down pat hitting them 3 times per week.I also like the fact that with a day between workouts now my recovery should be better.So heres what Im thinking

Stress
Mon- Squat 5x3 sets increased as needed
Bench 5x3 sets increased as needed
Chin 30 reps in 4 sets before weight increase
Light
Wed- lighter squat 2x5 or box squat light 3x3, Deadlift 3x8 and Press 5x5 or maybe 3x8 for a while
Performance
Fri- Squat, bench and chin all PR attempts in 1,3 or 5rm territory

Thoughts anyone?

Cheers HIThopper

PS Eric sorry if I confused you mate I was hurrying through typing that up yesterday cos I was sooooo busy!!
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:46 AM   #19
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Not really! I just didn't want to discuss a lot of theoretically stuff if you had more or less settled on a choice. Only thing you have to consider on that is progression. And with 5x3 trying to load or add sets it's going to be VERY hard to keep that going. It might work but just not very long. Unless you use something submax like starting with a 5 or 6RM load....but then it won't be enough to get any PR's going. You'd really be better off with 5x5 or even 4x6 or something like that.

3x8 deads is WAY too much...especially on light day. If you wanted to to deads like that you'd need to put them on Friday. That's a big jump up on deads and probably unecessary. If you wanted deads on wed then I'd recommend sticking to 1x5. If you put them on friday you could do maybe 2x5 and add reps here and there rather than load all the time. But if you add sets after that keep in mind it's really a big jump up in volume so it could effect recovery.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:46 AM   #20
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Looks fine Hops.

On Monday, you might consider alternating heavy triples with heavy fives as the stress. Doing so might help you make a longer run at it. Looking back at it I wish I had done that. Also, be careful not to increase the sets just for the sake of increasing the sets. There was a couple of times I had to decrease the sets on stress day to keep friday moving. One week I was so tired I skipped all the bench work on Monday and set another PR on Friday.

I like the idea of cycling through singles, triples, and fives on Performance day. I would suggest cycling through higher reps on the chin though, say 10's, 8's and 5's maybe. Remember though that friday doesn't always have to be a PR. If you're not feeling up for it just do a heavy lift. Also, don't worry if you miss a PR one week, just keep going with the cycle as long as you feel fine. When you get down to it, progress on Monday is the important thing.

I'm sure you'll figure things out as you go along mate.

Cheers,
Jeff
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