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Personal Journals discussion on Hyper Abbreviated Routine, within the Members Section; That bob peoples quote is bullshit. You bring air in to brace your lumbar and core. You can round the ...


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Old 07-06-2009, 12:03 PM   #91
Kane
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That bob peoples quote is bullshit. You bring air in to brace your lumbar and core. You can round the top of the back, that is allowed during a very heavy lift (thoracic spine) but ANYONE that says to exhale and round the spine for 'increased leverage' is a moron. Regardless of their name or how much they can leverage up on a deadlift.

And the muscles of the back are not easily overtrained. Youre throwing that word around as if you KNOW what it means.

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Old 07-06-2009, 12:25 PM   #92
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Even rounding the top of the back can be dangerous I injuried my (top) back like that in 2007 with a 172kg DL. I had to stop DL for 1 year.

Kane, I'll try to answer to your post :

Quote:
Not only this but you would also know that 1 rep is NOT enough to create a training effect, even if you're a beginner.
I don't think a lot of beginner can curl up to 28.5kg per arm back against a wall. If 1 rep was not enough I would LOSE strength not even maintain. But in reality I get stronger. So maybe you don't believe me but you cannot tell me that One Rep is not enough for a training effect. We can discuss if it's optimal or not.

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You're so fixated on fatigue and overtraining that you're dwarfing your training to the point where it becomes pointless and of no use. Fatigue is a side effect of your training stressor, it is not the main goal and it is not something you get directly. You don't exercise to fatigue muscles, you exercise and the stressor causes fatigue, you train for the stressor.
Fatigue is absolutely not the goal and should be avoided like the plague if your goal is STRENGTH. The Stimulus is Force Generation (and thus probably Rate of Energy Depletion).

Quote:
Increases in fitness or ability come from chronic exposure because your body adapts to the environment its put in, not because you lifted a heavy barbell one time.
My goal is Strength not fitness/conditioning. I don't train to be able to do 10 heavy singles or a 10RM. I train for 1RM : maximum strength.

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Do you really know how hard it is to overtrain? Because it is not easy. You can overeach for quite some time before you become overtrained. What you thought was overtraining could have been overreaching.
Call it like you want, when I LOSE strength it's because I "over-train". Too High Efforts imply that muscles cannot sustain the tension desired. The CNS/PNS try to compensate the loss of contractile force by increasing rate coding and this huge effort leads to overtraining of the muscles or more probably of the PNS which is depleted or damaged due to too high rate coding.

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And seriously, how can you say with a straight face that a single rep bicep curl is a measure of strength. Floor press, deadlift and bicep curl are your measures of strength. That is not even close to being a balanced program.
A 1RM = Maximum Strength. Curl is done back against a wall. Unilateral Dumbbell Floor Press is very strict exercise and you cannot really cheat on DL but you have to compare what's comparable : round back vs round back, straight back vs straight back. Floor Press works the Chest, Triceps and Shoulders, Curl the Biceps and Deadlift whole Back + Quads, Hams, Calves, Glutes, etc. I think it's a well balanced routine. My row increase as my DL and Curl increase so adding a ROW wouldn't do much if anything. It's not the time for me to add exercises. I'll do it but later... I still have others tests to do before.

Quote:
Like Ross said, I hope nobody is taking ths seriously because this is NOT the way to do strength training.
It's up to you to take it seriously or not. I report my workouts as they are. It would be easy for me to tell you that my DL went from 180kg to 200kg within a few months but that's not the case.

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I'll leave you with this. Today I did 8 singles on deadlifts, all well above 90% and probably higher than 95%, next week I will do 6, the week after 10 and the week after that 2 singles. In one month I have performed some very intense lifting, disipatted fatigue by managing volume and that amount of volume (during one month for me) would take you 26 sessions.
I did 6x1x95% everyday on Curl and I could do it everyday on DL. I don't because that's not necessarily nor desirable. The goal is not to do as much volume as possible.

Quote:
26 sessions @ 3-4 sessions per week is about 6-8 weeks. I repeat my cycle for a full year (which I have done) and that is equivalent to 312 of your 1 rep sessions. 3-4 sessions per week is 78-104 weeks which is 1.5-2 years. We could keep going but my point is that it takes you 1.5-2 times longer to get the same volume.
I train everyday (and I'm still not 100% sure that it is necessarily for the best gains) but again the goal is not maximum volume. The Goal is to generate a maximum force and repeat it as often as needed (supposedly everyday). I did several tests on frequency and it seems that training a muscle daily is the best but another 2 months test is needed.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:25 PM   #93
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Increased rate coding does not necessarily lead to overtraining, it leads to increased fatigue accumulation. Failing a rep or lift something very heavy will not overtrain you, even if your rate coding sky rockets. If you're silly enough to fail every workout or do 20 singles every day then sure it will, but we're not talking about that here.

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Increases in fitness or ability come from chronic exposure because your body adapts to the environment its put in, not because you lifted a heavy barbell one time.
That was a dual factor reference, not an aerobics reference or a stamina reference.

I'm very well aware of strength training and what its about. You're missing my whole point with the bicep curl being a measure of strength. Back against the wall, barbell or dumbbel, it doesn't matter. It is not a measure of strength, its a measure of how much you can curl. Isolation exercises are very poor choices to measure progress or strength.

Take your current exercises and change them to see how well balanced your program is. Throw in compound movements like chinups and overhead squats or pistol squats.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #94
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Kane: why are you arguing with this dumb shit? He is an idiot. And most likely a troll.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:55 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by _Wolf_ View Post
Kane: why are you arguing with this dumb shit? He is an idiot. And most likely a troll.
For the benefit of anyone reading this and considering following it.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:57 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Kane View Post
For the benefit of anyone reading this and considering following it.
Hmm...I hear you. Just coz he's an idiot doesn't mean people coming in need to believe what he says.

I just think he's a waste....but, if you are helping others out it's always a good thing.

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Old 07-06-2009, 07:59 PM   #97
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Kane, I am going to try out a different approach here.

Kinryoku, Please enlighten me on your training methodology. Instead of being a naysayer, please tell me how you believe progression should be done. Please. How do I become the strongest I can ever be?
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:16 AM   #98
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I don't agree about single joint movement beeing a poor way to measure strength. For me a strict single joint movement like the Curl is a good way to measure strength. It's better than an Overhead Squat which is much more technical movement and doesn't allow heavy enough weight to optimaly work the Legs. If I ask a BIG bodybuilder to do a 1RM on the Wall Curl he'll be able to immediately do a good performance even if he doesn't practice the "wall curl" but if I ask the same guy to do a Pistol or Overhead Squat he'll be very weak because those exercices request a lot of technique and intermuscular coordination.

Doing a 1RM once a while will not overtrain you but doing a 1RM every workout will make you weaker after a few weeks or months at best.

-------

Wolf I'm happy to see you are ready to learn something different. I'll answer your question as simply as possible (even if it would take a whole book to describ my methodology, which is something I want to do but I need to become much stronger to have a legitimity). It's also why I started to lift heavier on DL despite a rounded back. I'm not patient enough, I want to prove my theory by practice as quickly as possible but impatience is not a good thing at all.

SAID (specific adaptation to imposed demand) principle : if you want to increase your strength (contractile-mass) you have to train for strength not endurance. The best rep range is ONE (singles), the others rep range are only good for force-endurance and won't deliever the best gains.
GAS If the stimulus is too low (force output is too low) there is no adaptation. If the stimulus is strong enough (force output is high enough) there is an adaptation. If Force output is maximum the stimulus is maximum. If the stimulus is not repeated soon enough you'll lose the adaptation (decompensation) if the stimulus is repeated at the optimal frequency you'll make the best gains. If the equation Stimulation x Frequency is too High you'll overtrain (exhaustion stage).
Puting the theory into practice : Use 95% of your 1RM. Maximum Force can only be maintained ~2-3 seconds so you have to use a load which is heavy enough for maximum force production and not so heavy that the movement lasts more than 3 seconds. Typically a 1RM can last 5 seconds or more. When you do such a repetition the CNS/PNS are working as hard as they can despite the LOSS of Force (due to the lack of energy) which occurs after 3 seconds with a very heavy load. Training frequently at this level of Effort will lead to overtraining : depleted or damaged PNS (or maybe muscles themsevles). Repeating the stimulus BEFORE adaptation is termined is not necessarily. You cannot cumulate FORCE from one single to the next. So only one single is required and optimal. Repeat it every day. Well I'm not 100% sure about the optimal frequency but so far it seems that a daily frequency is the best.

BTW if you do sets of 10 insteed of singles what will happend ? You'll recruit your biggest motor units and even if at the end of the set they will work hard they will also have to adapt for endurance (to maintain a low tension for a prolonged time) which is counter-productive. It's why americans now use Max-Stim and Deutsch People use PITT-Force which are similar methods : Singles with short rest between. BTW it's for Bodybuilding not Strength Training. For Strength you don't need multiples singles, ONE HEAVY single is better because you train for PURE FORCE (contractile-mass) you don't need fatigue (non-contractile-mass).

I hope it makes things more clear for you. If not you'll have to wait for my book Maybe you never thought Strength Training could be as simple as that... but it is !

Workout n4 :

Deadlift : 145kg
Curl Left : 26
Curl Right : 26
Floor Press Left : 41
Floor Press Right : 41

No more warm up, after months on a daily frequency warm up is not required anymore. I think the CNS desinhibted the joints due to the frequent use.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:56 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post
For me a strict single joint movement like the Curl is a good way to measure strength. It's better than an Overhead Squat which is much more technical movement and doesn't allow heavy enough weight to optimaly work the Legs.
Wow......A curl is better than an OH Squat? Wow....You know how I know you're a fucking RETARD???

Quote:
Doing a 1RM once a while will not overtrain you but doing a 1RM every workout will make you weaker after a few weeks or months at best.
hmm.....What does this have to do with the discussion?

Oh wait...you're the one doing Max Effort training multiple times a week. Good save.

Not.

Quote:
Wolf I'm happy to see you are ready to learn something different.
I'm always ready to learn....don't you worry about that ;)

Quote:
I'll answer your question as simply as possible (even if it would take a whole book to describ my methodology, which is something I want to do but I need to become much stronger to have a legitimity).
Yes, you would need to be much stronger. Much much stronger.

Quote:
SAID (specific adaptation to imposed demand) principle : if you want to increase your strength (contractile-mass) you have to train for strength not endurance. The best rep range is ONE (singles), the others rep range are only good for force-endurance and won't deliever the best gains.
Ummm...how is anything more than 1 rep equal to endurance training? LAWL....

Quote:
I hope it makes things more clear for you. If not you'll have to wait for my book Maybe you never thought Strength Training could be as simple as that... but it is !
I am actually much more knowledgeable than you judging by the hodgepodge bullshit you just spewed out.

Maybe you should ditch your dumb ass methodology, get stronger on the type of training Kane and I do, and then market THAT as a book. You might actually earn a lot of money.

Maybe Eric and Joe should write a book.....
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #100
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I never said Curl is better than Squat, it's only better to measure strength. I wouldn't use OH Squat to measure quadriceps strength while a "Wall Curl" is a good indicator of Biceps Strength.

You didn't read what I wrote, I don't train at 100% but 95%. Sometimes I increase the weight a little bit too fast and I have to reduce it. I must be more patient.

BTW I'll get stronger no doubt about that. My Deadlift was not too bad at 180kg but I needed to lift 280kg. Well I'm an average (natural) Joe I'm not going to be BOB PEOPLE II and lift over 300kg...

Quote:
I am actually much more knowledgeable than you judging by the hodgepodge bullshit you just spewed out.
Bullshit ? Well we'll see. I saw your DL video at 405, good lift/effort. Was that your PR ? I'll lift more than that at the end of the year and maybe even with a straight back. If you do an Unilateral Dumbbell Floor Press or a Unilateral Dumbell Wall Curl we will see if you are much stronger than me and if you'll stay stronger at the end of the year. With your training you cannot make as much progress as me so I should be able to reduce the gap or even become stronger than you.

That'll be a good challenge for me. When I'll be stronger than you, you'll re-read my bullshit
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