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Hyper Abbreviated Routine

Personal Journals discussion on Hyper Abbreviated Routine, within the Members Section; Originally Posted by Kinryoku I don't understand why you think that a double progression is needed, why not simply add ...


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Old 07-08-2009, 07:36 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post

I don't understand why you think that a double progression is needed, why not simply add weight as you get stronger ?


There WILL be a point in time where you won't be able to keep adding weight. You can't expect to keep adding weight all the time, that is the hardest progression to maintain. Maybe it hasn't happened yet but it will.

What happens if you can't add any weight to an exercise? You do the same weight, right? But what happens if that continues for an extended period of time. The law of diminishing returns will be kicking in hard. But if you got stuck at a weight and performed an extra rep, or set, you're still providing the progessive overload needed for growth.

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Old 07-08-2009, 08:43 AM   #112
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If that's happen it would imply that there is a major mistake in my theory. I'm more afraid of over-stimulation than under-stimulation. Now all my working weights feel easy and are very close to 95% of my 1RM. I'll add weight slowly to be sure to not lift beyond 95% which would quickly lead to strength loss. This time I think I'm wise enough.

Workout n5/181 (n181 = 31.12.2009)

Deadlidt: 145
Curl L: 26
Curl R: 26
Floor L: 41
Floor R: 41

For Workout n181 my goals (95%) are :

Deadlift: 185kg
Curl L/R: 32kg
Floor L/R: 50kg

It would be PR on every lift (and only represents 95% of my 1RM). We'll see how it goes.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:23 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post
If that's happen it would imply that there is a major mistake in my theory.
BINGO!

Honestly, you don't have enough training experience or even knowledge base to be doing this type of 'experiment'.

Who would've thought lifting very heavy weights, ie. 95%+, would lead to a strength loss! Here I am thinking it would make me stronger.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:25 PM   #114
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I don't know why you have to come into his journal and just slam him. Wolf if you don't like his methods , don't read it. It's his and he has the right to do what he wants . If it works for HIM fine , if it dosen't fine ! Who cares. Just let the guy do what he wants to do....

COming in and calling him and idiot and telling him to Fuck off , dosen't make you look any better....

I'm just stating my view as I read this . I don't agree with his method and i won't tell someone to train this way , but he likes it and he's trying something new....Why not let him ?

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Old 07-08-2009, 12:37 PM   #115
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Who would've thought lifting very heavy weights, ie. 95%+, would lead to a strength loss
Well...who would have thought that Strength Training and Bodybuilding can lead to Strength Loss and "Body Destruction" ? Both Overtraining and Injuries are possible. If you do a 1RM everyday (or even much less often) you are going to lose strength. Do you know how many HITers don't make progress or even lose strength ? They train too hard. Some don't want to train a little bit less hard and they adopt a Super Low Frequency to recover (Heavy Duty). They then believe that they are "super hardgainers" who cannot do more than 1 set per week or even every 2 weeks.

The problem is not their recovery capacities, the problem is over-stimulation : Too High Effort (too high nervous influx). You cannot easily recover from a MAXIMUM EFFORT, it takes times which is normal, lot of time... When you train at 95% of your capacities you can easily recover (Effort is Exponential and at 95% it's still relatively low) BUT if you increase the weight too fast (like I recently did on curl) you'll progressively train above 95%, too close to 100% and you'll overtrain, lose strength. What happens above 95% is that the weight is so heavy that your speed decreases and your movement lasts much longer which implies that the Nervous System must try to maintain MAXIMUM FORCE for a much longer time which is not possible and extremley taxing.

It's not necessarily nor desirable to go beyond 95%, force is not increased, only the time to maintain the force is increased. You have to be patient and increase the load based on your real progression. If your 1RM was 100kg Day 1 and 105kg Day 50, you can add a MAXIMUM of 0.5 every 10 days if you try to go faster you'll overtrain and starts to lose strength.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:53 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinryoku View Post
Well...who would have thought that Strength Training and Bodybuilding can lead to Strength Loss and "Body Destruction" ? Both Overtraining and Injuries are possible. If you do a 1RM everyday (or even much less often) you are going to lose strength. Do you know how many HITers don't make progress or even lose strength ? They train too hard. Some don't want to train a little bit less hard and they adopt a Super Low Frequency to recover (Heavy Duty). They then believe that they are "super hardgainers" who cannot do more than 1 set per week or even every 2 weeks.

The problem is not their recovery capacities, the problem is over-stimulation : Too High Effort (too high nervous influx). You cannot easily recover from a MAXIMUM EFFORT, it takes times which is normal, lot of time... When you train at 95% of your capacities you can easily recover (Effort is Exponential and at 95% it's still relatively low) BUT if you increase the weight too fast (like I recently did on curl) you'll progressively train above 95%, too close to 100% and you'll overtrain, lose strength. What happens above 95% is that the weight is so heavy that your speed decreases and your movement lasts much longer which implies that the Nervous System must try to maintain MAXIMUM FORCE for a much longer time which is not possible and extremley taxing.

It's not necessarily nor desirable to go beyond 95%, force is not increased, only the time to maintain the force is increased. You have to be patient and increase the load based on your real progression. If your 1RM was 100kg Day 1 and 105kg Day 50, you can add a MAXIMUM of 0.5 every 10 days if you try to go faster you'll overtrain and starts to lose strength.
You're going to two different extremes.

The acute fatigue effects of higher rep work has a faster onset and longer dissipation time than max effort work does. So 1 rep will have less fatigue and take less time to dissipate than a set of 8.

I hope you realize that your max is not a static number. 95% today may be 94 or 98 another day, and if you never lift above 95% you can't say with certainty that you are at 95%.

If you lift a heavier weight then you need a greater force. 95%+ is not a magical range. 95lbs and 100lbs take different forces to move, its simple physics. You try and pick up a 300lb barbell or a 305lb barbell and they will not be the same force. Buildings and bridges would fall down with your logic.

I dont' know where you got the 100 to 105 in 50 days being .5 every 10 days. .5 every 10 days is a 2.5lb increase at 50days. And that's a ridiculous way of looking at things. The whole point is that you know what day 1 is but you DON'T know what day 50 will be, you can hardly tell what day 3 will be like. You can't pull numbers out of the sky and say this is how it has to be or you will overtrain.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:02 PM   #117
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You're going to two different extremes.

I hope you realize that your max is not a static number. 95% today may be 94 or 98 another day, and if you never lift above 95% you can't say with certainty that you are at 95%.

I dont' know where you got the 100 to 105 in 50 days being .5 every 10 days. .5 every 10 days is a 2.5lb increase at 50days. And that's a ridiculous way of looking at things. The whole point is that you know what day 1 is but you DON'T know what day 50 will be, you can hardly tell what day 3 will be like. You can't pull numbers out of the sky and say this is how it has to be or you will overtrain.
These are the parts where I see your theory coming apart. Your 1RM is not static day to day or even hour to hour and therefore 95% of your 1RM is not static either. So you can't just assume your 1RM is increasing at some linear rate. You're basing your "95%" thing on guesses.

I do agree with Talo though. I find the disussion kind of interesting and he's not hurting anyone really so leave him be. I think, however, that maybe you should state more clearly that this is an experiment based on your own research/theories somewhere. Just for the fact that if a newbie does find his way in here he should know its not a *proven* method.

Also, get your diet & sleep consistent and then you might have something a little more solidly controlled.

IW
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:18 AM   #118
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COming in and calling him and idiot and telling him to Fuck off , dosen't make you look any better....
talk about being holier than thou....you forget yourself ridiculing his form on deadlifts? So awesome of you.

Well, in my defense: not all of us can be saints now can we?

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Old 07-09-2009, 05:42 AM   #119
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I don't forget ( I didn't ridicule him I laughed at the video that Pity posted), I just dont care .

I cant wait for the post where he says " I can't workout no more because I hurt , blank "


I'm not here to fight with you
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:15 AM   #120
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I just dont care.
Well....I guess that is a better attitude than in my case: I only care enough to tell him to fuck off. If I had the patience (and in this case the accuracy of putting your thoughts to words) of Kane, I would've explained some logic that the rest of us who have been training "wrong" use. But....I don't care and I am not good at it. So, I do my part in saying: he sucks.

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I'm not here to fight with you either.
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