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Old 10-19-2008, 06:50 PM   #31
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A question for anyone - Westside has a lot of info about box squatting and one such article says:

"A lighter weight can achieve a bigger squat with box squatting.
By training at 50-60% of your 1-rep max in a 3-week wave, a large squat can be developed. Three lifters trained with 405-480 for 8-10 doubles with 120 pounds of chain as a reactive method. They all made their first 800+ squat."

Why is it better to use lighter weights when box squatting? is this only applicable when using bands/chains? right now, as above, i'm doing heavy box squats - should i change that up or no?
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:53 PM   #32
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Are you any where near an 800 pound squat?
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradler View Post
A question for anyone - Westside has a lot of info about box squatting and one such article says:

"A lighter weight can achieve a bigger squat with box squatting.
By training at 50-60% of your 1-rep max in a 3-week wave, a large squat can be developed. Three lifters trained with 405-480 for 8-10 doubles with 120 pounds of chain as a reactive method. They all made their first 800+ squat."

Why is it better to use lighter weights when box squatting? is this only applicable when using bands/chains? right now, as above, i'm doing heavy box squats - should i change that up or no?
It's not always better to use lighter weights when box squatting. Heavy box squats can be good also. It's not only applicable with bands and chains. I would change it up if I were you. It will make you more explosive out of the bottom. I'll let someone else give a more detailed response as to the "why".

EDIT: I don't know which way my post was taken, but after reading it, it's not very clear. Just to clarify, by "change it up", I mean add variety. Definitely don't replace heavy box squatting with light box squats. Light (focus is on speed) box squatting is a good supplemental lift. It may help with your progression on heavier box squats. It has helped me significantly. I'm still the slowest person on Earth though.

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Old 10-19-2008, 06:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
Are you any where near an 800 pound squat?
This is kind of along the same lines as what Eric said ^^. Are you still progressing with heavy box squats? If the answer is yes, then why even think of switching it up??

Not to shit on Ross' advice or anything, I think its a good idea to switch it up. Just not at the expense of some easy progression, well relatively easy I guess

Basically following the advice of the quote you posted doesn't make a whole lot of sense imho.

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Old 10-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #35
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How many times can Westside cite 800 pound squats in articles aimed at a general audience?
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:05 PM   #36
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Apparently they haven't reached the limit yet
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:07 PM   #37
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Who's gonna tell them to stop doing it? They can squat over 800 lbs, thats like trying to tell a thousand pound gorilla where to sit.
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:13 PM   #38
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ha. no i am not near 800 of course. kane - i should have thought of that first (the whole if it ain't broke logic). eric - i guess this goes back to that authority thing. everyone - thanks, i guess there's no reason not to just keep on truckin'.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:08 PM   #39
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Kane gave great advice. If you're progressing, don't change anything. No point to doing speed work right now if you're still gaining on whatever you're currently doing. When reading Westside articles, you need to take most of what they say and put it on the back burner for a later time. For example, I incorperated a few months of starting off every workout w/ 4 x 15 neutral db pressing to strengthen my bench and increase my GPP. And did it? Good God, yes. But how many others wouldn't come close to recovering enough, which leads many down the Injury Express..

I like to think about it this way. What may work for many, won't necessarily mean all. I have a good friend in another forum that spent the entire summer training at Westside, and a good amount of what he says they do over there doesn't come close to reflecting what those articles say lol. As an example, he says most of them nix the speed squats altogether, and many do something like a max squat day, then a max deadlift day later in the week. Tons, I mean tons of Louie's stuff out there isn't used today.. He could just type out a brand new article, and before the ink sets, he's already changed it LMAO! But, I'm telling you right now that even the most dated stuff THEY don't do anymore has absolutely made the difference in MY training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradler View Post
A question for anyone - Westside has a lot of info about box squatting and one such article says:

"A lighter weight can achieve a bigger squat with box squatting.
By training at 50-60% of your 1-rep max in a 3-week wave, a large squat can be developed. Three lifters trained with 405-480 for 8-10 doubles with 120 pounds of chain as a reactive method. They all made their first 800+ squat."

Why is it better to use lighter weights when box squatting? is this only applicable when using bands/chains? right now, as above, i'm doing heavy box squats - should i change that up or no?
They're talking about speed work. Or to sound smart - Compensatory Accelleration. I think Louie adopted it in the Westside training from Supertraining by Mel Siff..

"In the book, Supertraining, authors Siff and Verkershonsky state that the best range for developing explosive strength in the barbell squat is two-thirds of your best 1RM." - Tate

Of course a lot less of a percentage is used over there at Westside because of how advanced they are. "The lifters at Westside are more experienced and are recruiting more motor units. Therefore, fewer percentages are needed to produce the desired results." - Tate

It's almost always done in 3 week waves since typically you don't get any stronger thereafter. The reactive method is almost always used for speed work. That could mean chains, bands, weight releasers, or a combination thereof. It's all there to develop speed (Power = Distance x Speed) or something like that lol. Heavy weight one day, submaximal weight done as fast as possible the other. For benching, doing 3 reps working on speed is the equivalant of straining with a max weight (meaning the same time it takes three fast reps = 1 rep max if you were to time it more or less).

I guess if I was to use an less than accurate example that would show you want all that means: A person with a 350 bench as a 1 RM would press 200 lbs a lot faster than someone with a 300 lb bench.

The formula for speed work always stays the same for everyone, no matter where you are in training because it's based off of percentages.

Example:

Bodybuilder A's best squat is 800 lbs. Assuming no accomodating resistance, he could start speed work with 400 lbs (50%) for 8-12 sets of doubles (45-60 seconds rest between sets).

Bodybuilder B's best squat is 400 lbs. Assuming no accomodating resistance, he could start speed work with 200 lbs (50%) for 8-12 sets of doubles (45-60 seconds rest between sets).

I just wanted to give some very basic insight into what that 2 liner was saying. Louie has a nasty habit in his writings of only appealing to the Elite total lifters only. But that's really not his fault, just writing style to show everyone that the conjugate method is superior. Assuming that everyone starts off somewhere, and they don't start squatting 400 lbs out of the womb, I feel he's trying to appeal to your sense of grandeur (ie. stick with these concepts and over time you could total elite). I know from reading everything he's ever wrote, AND seeing all the DVD's, that's exactly where he's coming from. To put it in perspective, if Mark Rippetoe was to come on here and talk about Crossfit, the only thing he could say is that he's had one 600 lb deadlifter come out of there LOL.

Last edited by Darkhorse; 10-19-2008 at 11:40 PM..

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Old 10-20-2008, 10:14 AM   #40
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Good points, D, lol. That really does clear it up. And you got me with the Rippetoe thing, haha. I really was trying to say something similar...bascially that these tips aren't rules but I don't have your encyclopedic knowledge of WSB so please excuse if I sounded disrespectful.

Actually, though, it's a reason I don't like Supertraining..it's full of "assumptions, preconceptions, theories, and so on, without any practical direction.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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