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Old 03-07-2008, 06:02 AM   #171
widdoes2504
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Good luck getting your strength back and enjoy the bulking!
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:37 PM   #172
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I thought you were bulking. It just seems like your calories were low. But I guess you're getting the diet back under control. My frame of reference is off too since I just finished doing a 3500-4000 cal bulk.

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Old 03-09-2008, 01:50 PM   #173
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My cals may seem a bit low but thats cause I only write down what i've eaten so far that day. On my last post I had another meal at 7 and 9. So that brings it up considerably.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:59 PM   #174
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Thurs March 6/08

Well my strength is starting to come back but it seems like its gonna be a bit of a fight.


Squats (volume day)
- bar x 5 (warmup/stretch)
- 135lbs x 5 (warmup)
- 155lbs x 3 (weight acclimation)
- 175lbs 3x8

Hammered these out. Fast reps. Seems oddly easy. Thank god.


Bench (heavy day)
- bar x 8 (warmup/stretch)
-135lbs x 4(weight acclimation)
-155lbs x2
-175lbs x 1
-185lbs 3x5

Barely, squeaked the last rep. I started too heavy... I'm hoping my healing rate is going to pick up now. I'll try 190lbs next week.


DB Military Press
30lbs 4x8


Dips
bw + 40lbs x9,8,7

A little too heavy but it was a heavy arms day.

Hanging Leg Raises
bw x 7,3,3

Abs were still sore as hell today. This was hurting too bad so I just stopped.


Diet

Lets just say I'm probably over my cals already and its 4pm and I got up at 11. lol Ouch.


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Old 03-09-2008, 02:22 PM   #175
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Quote:

Bench (heavy day)
- bar x 8 (warmup/stretch)
-135lbs x 4(weight acclimation)
-155lbs x2
-175lbs x 1
-185lbs 3x5


That's "heavy" day?

Heavy is 1 t to 3 reps. OK so I'm overgeneralizing but the point is I see very few people really lifting "heavy" compared to what they consider volume....what you mean is is "heavier" but it still is a "I'm trying to get mass and strength with the same exercise" thing. It's not that it won't make you stronger.

Haha, I think maybe some more people SHOULD read dinosaur training.

Eric Cressey described it very well recently. He is so much better at a clever turn of phrase than I am so I’ll paraphrase him. It is like trying to ride two horses with one ass. So people are trying to ride a powerlifter’s horse with a bodybuilder’s ass. As he said, even if it does have striations in it, it won’t get the job done.

If you are at the point where you NEED heavy versue “volume” days, then you may as well lift HEAVY on heavy day. Not that what you are lifting isn’t heavy it just isn’t HEAVY.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:02 PM   #176
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Well I would like to get stronger but I would also like to gain mass. I guess right now my mass gains would be more of a priority then my strength gains. However, I find that making strength gains keeps me motivated to keep hitting the gym. I'm sure you can relate to that.

I guess I was also just assuming that if I was getting stronger, I'd be getting bigger. Do you think I'm at the point where I really have to seperate my training style for strength or size? If so, is there some good reading you can point me in the direction of to differentiate the two?

Thanks again Eric,

Oh yeah, I was originally coming on here to post up my lastest version of my workout plan. See what you think and reccomend some changes based on what I told you above if you want.

Here is the general layout:

Its based on a one week cycle for the main base lifts and the other lifts rotate in.

Constant Lifts


Sunday
Volume Squat (3x8)
"Heavy" Bench (3x5)

Tuesday
deads (3x5 progress until stall then switch to 2x5...then 1x5...then test new max)
-light squat --> overhead squats perhaps (3x5 with very lightweight, mostly ROM work)

Thursday
"Heavy" Squat (3x5)
volume bench (4x8)

These lifts were run the same every week and would match up with either week A or B below.

Week A

Sun
-Pull ups (3x5)
-Dips (3x10)
-calves (3x10)
-ham curls (3x10)

Tues
-BB M.PRess (3x5)
-P. Rows (3x5)
-Hanging Leg Raises (3x10)
-obliques (not sure yet) (3x10)

Thurs
-Pull Ups (3x5)
-Dips (3x10)
-calves (3x10)
-ham curls (3x10)


Week B

Sun
-DB M.Press (4x8)
-Rows (3x5)
-Hanging Leg Raises (3x10)
-obliques (3x10)

Tues
-Dips (3x10)
-Pull Ups (3x5)
-calves (3x10)
-ham curls (3x10)

Thurs
-BB M.PRess (3x5 Priority over volume bench)
-Rows (3x5)
-Hanging Leg Raises (3x10)
-Obliques (3x10)



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Old 03-10-2008, 01:00 PM   #177
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Well to try to answer all this I'm gonna have to be a pain in the ass as usual, so bare with me and my apologies in advance

If you ask whether you need to separate right now I'd say no, you don't NEED to. But that begs the question of why your are actually attempting to separate in a way. And also why you present a two week plan, so on and so forth.

I know that the question is coming from the whole beginner, intermediate, advanced as told by Rip. Believe me I probably understand all that better than anyone here and I've sort of wrote my own 'book' on it for myself. But you have to realize that when you take these static definitions of beginner, intermediate and so on they may be loosely applicable to an extended population but when you combine it all with a certain programming philosophy it becomes more of a "MODEL" than a training philosophy. So if you're going to suscribe to it you have to subscribe to the whole model.

In other words if you're basing it on do I NEED to as this model would lead you to ask then why are you doing something more complicated than a standard type intermediate 5x5. Because if you think you only need middleground strength and mass stuff then there is not going to be a huge difference between a well run 5x5 and what you are doing now in a way.

I see people trying to "adapt" the definitions into other programs and it just won't work very well. What it comes down to is you are trying to generalize it and while it it may still be very successful as many things can be it is probably no more successfull than sticking to the general model as presented.

Or you can recognize that there is no REAL one size fits all model...there are only very loose and general tendancies. And, in fact, different people have a different interpretation of what a beginner/intermediate versus an advanced trainee needs. For instance while most would agree that 5x5 methods can work well for beginners/intermediates (but it's not the only thing of course) not many would subscribe to the notion that an truly advanced trainee needs to just do more and more volume and can only advance by loading blocks. At least when it comes to strength. Of course strength and mass are intimately related.

So if what you are doing is working for you then I of course say keep doing it. But don't stymie yourself with definitions because you've already chosen to disregard the model so ALL that counts is what happens for you. That is the big problem I've realized with all of this stuff. I've been trying to wrap my head around it and just when I was kinda coming to it Cosgrove made it hit home: This is all about what is supposed to happen, what you expect to happen, what should have happened. BUT ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT DOES HAPPEN.

Which should lead to the inevitable conclusion that results count not models.

Do you need to change what you are doing if it is working? Of course not. But you also don't need to worry about someone giving you permission to step out of THEIR box.

As far as my advice goes I actually would not suggest that you start doing heavy single and doubles for you heavy work at this point (as in maximal work) but you can certainly give yourself permission to step out of this sets and reps thing for heavy work. There are many ways to get stronger. But you know there is one that even the most advanced "forum gurus" hardly seem to recognize because we are so caught up in volume, time, density, etc. Well one of the best ways to get stronger is simply to lift heavy shit a bunch of times .

The reason people don't recognize it is they really never let go of the mass priority. They don't REALLY want to get strong. They want to get big but they want to also be able to impress people with their lifts. This is not accusing you this is to say what we base our learning on. So think about it. You get all these people preaching about getting strong to get big. BUT do they EVER really do strenght work? NAH. They are caught up in the mass thing and it's all a bunch of empty words when it comes down to it.

A trick for you if you want to experiment...and I can explain how to use it further later on. That heavy bench you just did for 3x5 at 185 pounds. Take what you intend to do for 3x5, add 10 pounds to it and knock out some doubles or triples with it. If that is easy add a little more. With good rest periods. See how many doubles you can do BUT put the emphasis on quality. This is how you keep from overdoing it (one way anyway). You do as many good quality reps as you can using low rep sets with good long rest periods (rest as much as you need). If the technique goes to shit you are done. SO you are lifting a HEAVIER weight MORE times than you would have and you are getting quality volume. This is not maximal work but it is quality and heavier. It won't induce a lot of fatigue especially since you are using more fatigue management than you are now. It is certainly suited to an intermediate because I am only telling you to do what you can do well.

Then you use your volume stuff to accumulate volume and work on hypertrophy.

To manage time you can do some of your supplemental stuff as supersets.

Just an idea. As far as further reading I can't just wave a magic wand and sum that up. It comes from too many different places. But to sort of get an idea on this kind of concept I'd say look up articles by Steven (or Stephan I can't remember) Plisk.
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Old 03-10-2008, 03:15 PM   #178
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Well I guess you're wondering why I'm deviating from the standard model. My reasoning for that is:

1) The original RIP program is very agressive and becomes difficult to heal in time for the next workout. I found that doing deads and squats on the same day was just asking for injury so the middle squat day was cancelled and deads were done just once a week.

2) I don't like having M.Press once a week but I don't really like putting it after bench either. So having this rotating cycle gives M.Press once a week on deads day when you're fresh and a dumbell volume day and a BB heavy day (where its prioritized over bench) the next week. I thought this made a nice balance.

3) Having Rows and Pullups on the same day would always really put a damper on whichever activity came second. So, these activites were made to rotate as well.

I've basically just been trying to find a good balance of hitting the exercises often enough and not getting over fatigued. I find if I train for example bench really hard and then try to press then my press suffers or vice versa. I was trying to minimize the times when an exercise is sacrificed for another. If that makes sense...

Now that I look at it, this program has gotten a bit complicated but its been modified slowly over time from the base rip program.

I read over the 5x5 program again and now I'm interested in that. It might be time to just start fresh with a different program. I dunno.

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Old 03-10-2008, 03:29 PM   #179
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Well of course the idea is when it becomes to hard to do the SS model and you have to periodize during the week you may as well go to a weekly periodized 5x5 (i.e. intermediat). BUT I wasn't really asking why you were deviating from the model. I have no problem with what you are doing! I don't care about models. The idea was to suggest that you were limiting yourself based on ideas of what you need to do rather than what you COULD do as long as there wasn't a downfall to it...such as injury potential.

The way you changed the program if perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned....I was trying to help you make minor improvements to THIS plan, not suggesting a new one

I think you thought I was questioning why you evolved you program the way you did. But what I was saying was that you were had made one step out of the "box" so I'm just giving you that extra little push to lift the other foot out as well.

You chose to make the plans you have from what you yourself noticed you needed. SO to my way of thinking you're on the right track and you don't need to doubt youself. 5x5 will help you manage fatigue but it won't give you much flexiblity. I don't really think your program has gotten too complicated. If it is good with you then it's good. And upper/lower may give you an easier way of mangaging things also so that is something to consider.

Just ignore me if I'm confusing you
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Old 03-10-2008, 04:26 PM   #180
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What part of my program do you think is limiting myself "inside the box" still?
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