Go Back   Bodybuilding Forum - Bodybuilding.net > Members Section > Personal Journals

IronWorker - SS gone WestSide

Personal Journals discussion on IronWorker - SS gone WestSide, within the Members Section; Well put as usual E...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-15-2008, 08:01 PM   #421
HIThopper
Rank: Middleweight
 
HIThopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,029
Country:

Gender:
Default

Well put as usual E
HIThopper is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 07:56 AM   #422
EricT
Rank: Heavyweight
Experience: 7-10 Years
 
EricT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,314
Country:

Gender:
Default

Well thanks, hits

Thanks

Guys, I did want to point out a few things since I’ve noticed so many people are doing DE type training.

I’m aware that WSB almost seems to make it a foregone that DE training will be benefit EVERYONE’S absolute strength. Assuming that absolute strength IS your goal and we are not talking about vertical jumps or something there are a few things to consider.

The first is that a significant increase in absolute strength is a foundational requirement to develop speed. If you take a person who already has achieved a great deal of strength then that person will not derive too much benefit, in speed terms, from more max strength work or anything of slow velocity. But for a person who is starting out with low or average absolute strength, then strength training including max strength training develops speed, i.e. rate of force development or explosive power…up to a point. What this means is that there is a time in your training that speed work will derive very little ADDITIONAL benefit for you YET. We must assess what we are doing. You can figure out pretty easily whether you are relatively slow or fast at different intensities and that can tell you a bunch.

The DE training at lower intensities is not a BAD thing of course. Hell, for one thing it is a perfect “technique” practice. So really what I’m getting at is don’t use a sledge hammer to drive a nail.

As an example, if you are an intermediate or more beginning lifter engaged in the business of developing absolute strength (this is assuming that is you one goal and you are not a power athlete) and you put 50% of your 1RM on the bar for DE training only to find that you are lightning fast and are practically sending it into orbit…well…your speed has for the time being improved and coincided with your strength development in general. This is just like it is with everything when first starting out…general adaptation. Fast is fast. On the other hand if 50% (or maybe even 40% depending upon the movement) feels very slow and on par with much higher intensities in terms of speed…well you can figure that out. Likewise with greater and greater intensities moving up the continuum from speed-strength, to power, to strength-speed.

I’ve read many times people just making simple absolute statements like “strength training increases maximal strength but does little to change the rate of force development”. But my point is that depends on how much max strength you’ve already developed. At first just lifting a weight increases rate of force development. And I would point out, since we are talking about strength, that you never INTENTIONALY lift a weight slowly anyway…like a bodybuilder might. Intention does count and it has been shown that intentinally lifting in an explosive a manner as possible REGARDLESS of the intensity does improve it….

Also, don’t neglect SSC (stetch shortening cycle) training. Which is why I mentioned that yes, box squats and Anderson squats are great, but DE free squats, or banded de free squats, and squat jumps and things like that are very valuable. Remember that when you do an actual short you need to be able to quickly decelerate the weight, store that potential energey in the muscles, and use it to help explode back up. You can’t do this with box squats or the like.

BTW, I want to emphasize that I really mean it, that imo, INTENTION is more important than actual speed when developing absolute strength. And yes, there is actual study evidence to back this up. Don't let anybody tell you that if the bar doesn't move as fast as you'd like it's not doing you any good. As long as you TRY to move it as fast as possilbe then all sorts of good adapations are happening. Increase in muscle tension, etc...

I know many won't agree with this but you have to consider what really happens more than what people TELL you will happen . Basically, what some of these studies seem to show is that increased intramuscular tension, rfd, etc...can be gained by simply intending to do an ISOMETRIC exercise with more explosive force for a period of time and then have those increases actually produce increases in contractile movements. So, in this case, not only is the speed of movement the key, since there is no movement, but simply the intention. Not to say that you don't want to increase you speed.

According to Steven Plisk ,this is known as Full volitional effort - a deliberate attempt to maximally accelerate the resistance, even if it’s too heavy to move rapidly, and it yields the greatest neuromuscular excitation and subsequently adaptive response. This quote is taken from "Conditioning for Strength and Human Performance" by T. Jeff Chandler and Lee E. Brown.

Last edited by EricT; 08-16-2008 at 08:58 AM..

EricT's Sig:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
EricT is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 09:15 PM   #423
HIThopper
Rank: Middleweight
 
HIThopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,029
Country:

Gender:
Default

Well put yet again E
HIThopper is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008, 07:49 PM   #424
iron_worker
Rank: Light Heavyweight
Experience: 5-7 Years
 
iron_worker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saskatoon, Sk, Canada
Posts: 3,272
Country:

Gender:
Send a message via MSN to iron_worker
Default

Well thanks for the thoughts guys. I read that through once but I think I'm going to have to read it through again when I'm not so tired. lol

IronWorker
iron_worker is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 10:50 AM   #425
Andrew.cook
Rank: Member
Experience: 10+ Years
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lancaster, Ohio
Posts: 353
Country:

Gender:
Default

I, for one, have found that I see more benefits from RE work than DE work. Probably because of the point that Eric brought up about the fact that very few people lift slowly on purpose.

From a "powerbuilding" perspective, or people following somethign that smells and tastes like WSBB but aren't competing powerlifters, I would say that DE work may have limited use in the grand scheme of things. Not that it is bad, but there may be better ways to spend your time.
Andrew.cook is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 08:04 PM   #426
iron_worker
Rank: Light Heavyweight
Experience: 5-7 Years
 
iron_worker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saskatoon, Sk, Canada
Posts: 3,272
Country:

Gender:
Send a message via MSN to iron_worker
Default

Monday Aug 18th/2008

Well had a pretty sweet weekend at the cabin but minimal sleep so I decided doing any ME work today wouldn't be that useful. Before I even saw Andrew's post I decided I was going to do some good old fashioned RE work today. I think a mix of RE/DE work is probably what I'll start working into my non-ME days.

Weight: Well the scale read 188lbs (+7lbs in 3 days) which I think is totally whacked. I'll check it again next time.

Bent Knee GMs
-bar x 5
-95lbs x 5
-115lbs x 3
-135lbs x 3
-135lbs 2x5

Tt was a good a day as any to learn how to do GMs properly. I guess you could call all of those weights PRs. lol Didn't want to go heavy on the first time doing them so we just focused on keeping a tight arch and trying not to get into a squat position. Had the safeties set to about 4" above the hip. (They were level with the hip when standing straight up)

RE Bench
- bar x 8
- 135lbs x 5
- 155lbs x 8
- 175lbs x 8
- 195lbs x 8
- 205lbs x 5

Well the RE work went better then I expected. I died hard on the 6th rep of my last set so that was good point to stop. Definately get a different feel then ME work...much more burny.

RE High Box Squats
-bar x 5
-135lbs x 4
-185lbs x 3
-185lbs x 8
-195lbs x 8
-205lbs x 8

Had a box that brought me to ~1-2" above paralell. Never tried a back squat with a box before. I can definately see how they help to build your out of the hole power. We wouldn't normally do a squat on GM day but we figured since we started so light on GMs we probably should.


Pull-ups
bw x 3
bw + 10lbs x 3
bw + 15lbs x 3
bw + 5lbs x 3

Got pretty damn tired after this so no rows or dips.

Thougths

Well the RE work felt pretty good. I think it will be nice to throw that in there every once in a while. Maybe it will have a good hypertrophy effect as well. We will see.

IronWorker
iron_worker is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 07:58 AM   #427
iron_worker
Rank: Light Heavyweight
Experience: 5-7 Years
 
iron_worker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saskatoon, Sk, Canada
Posts: 3,272
Country:

Gender:
Send a message via MSN to iron_worker
Default

Wednesday August 21st/2008

Well as I figured there was a sign above the scale today that said "might be off as much as 5% high." So who knows where I'm actually at.

ME Deads
-60kg x 5
-80kg x 3
-100kg x 2
-120kg x 1
-140kg x 1
-150kg x 1
-160kg x 1,0(5kg PR!)
-140kg x 3

Very solid day. I tried for a second single on the new PR but it was not to be. But w.e I'm still happy with that. Thats 352lbs woo woo!

Front Squats
-bar x 5
-95lbs x 4
-115lbs x 5
-135lbs x 5
-155lbs x 5
-175lbs x 5

Well I felt like my flexibility was awesome and I was getting super low. Felt great. I don't think I've ever lifted heavier with front squats. Nice.

ME BB Military Press
- bar x 5
- 75lbs x 4
- 95lbs x 3
- 115lbs x 2
- 135lbs x 1
- 145lbs x 1
- 135lbs x 3

I'm not exactly sure on the reps of that. I did this workout last night and it was a late workout so I didn't do my journal right when I got home. The weights are right but I can't remember the reps of the last set.... might have been 2? Anyways, pretty solid regardless.

Hanging Leg Raises
bw x8,8,9

I think I can finally start trying for a 3x9 now. Yay.

Oblique Work
3x5 - 40lbs,45lbs,50lbs

Thougths

It was a late workout today but I ate like crazy today so I still had energy. Lots of pasta to fuel me.

After the workout my workout partner helped me haul down my old ass stove and washing machine since I got new ones. I threw them in my apartment's dumpster... lol I dont' think you're sposed to do that but good thing it was dark.

My apartment is damn near complete. Just some painting and cleaning left to do and I'm damn happy about it.


IronWorker
iron_worker is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:50 PM   #428
HIThopper
Rank: Middleweight
 
HIThopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,029
Country:

Gender:
Default

Nice deadlifting I dub
HIThopper is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:53 PM   #429
MONSTAFACE
Rank: Lightweight
 
MONSTAFACE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: philly
Posts: 1,405
Country:

Gender:
Send a message via AIM to MONSTAFACE Send a message via Yahoo to MONSTAFACE
Default

Dido
MONSTAFACE is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 08:56 AM   #430
iron_worker
Rank: Light Heavyweight
Experience: 5-7 Years
 
iron_worker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saskatoon, Sk, Canada
Posts: 3,272
Country:

Gender:
Send a message via MSN to iron_worker
Default

Thanks boyz!

Hey, anyone know any good shoulder stretches? Ross? My shoulder has been a little sore lately (mostly after heavy M press days). I was thinking I should probably get prehabbing it before it gets bad. Its usually pretty sore in the morning when I wake up and then gets better throughout the day. Also I guess I should say that it doesn't really bother my *while* I'm lifting at all. Its all on my off days.

IronWorker
iron_worker is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook
Reply With Quote
Reply

  Bodybuilding Forum - Bodybuilding.net > Members Section > Personal Journals


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.