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Old 08-22-2008, 09:55 AM   #431
Andrew.cook
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Shoulder issues joint related or muscle?
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:30 AM   #432
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adrenaline does wonderful things for pain blocking
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:35 AM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
I, for one, have found that I see more benefits from RE work than DE work. Probably because of the point that Eric brought up about the fact that very few people lift slowly on purpose.
I remember telling Anuj that's why I don't like thinking of RE as "hypertroply day", lol. You end up having people doing super slow "bodybuilding style" reps on RE day. It's an oppurtunity to lift fast.

But it's up to the individual, I think, and if they are a "grinder" or a faster lifter. Some people will absolute need to do dedicated DE stuff to really develop it and some people will not need as much. And of course things could change down the road. But I really don't like the idea of just telling people to do everything without assessing where their deficits are.

IW, look at the last post in the "stetching and flexibilty" article (Training Articles). And at the end of the injuries sticky for some posts on shoulders. That, I think, should pretty much hook you up.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:09 PM   #434
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Andrew, its definately muscle related.

Thanks Eric.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:16 PM   #435
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I personally find DE work to be... difficult on many levels. What I find is that in my own training I already accelerate the bar. When I drop too much weight I find that I lose a lot of tightness in my lift. Without sufficient resistance I either need to dial back, or I end up out of whack because I no longer have enough feedback from the weight. I'm not talking about loads of 30% either, but around 50% I already lose a feel for the bar. So low weight low rep work ends up being wasted time for me. My suspicion is that it is a much better tool when you are an elite level (or very accomplished) powerlifter, as working at 50% of a 900lb squat will be a VERY different feel from working at 50% of a 350lb squat. Maybe I'm way off there. RE work, on the other hand, has very good feedback, feel and results for me.

More thoughts on this Monday but it is time to go home.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:27 PM   #436
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I know exactly what you mean. If you are already fast at those percentages you are ending up working too much in the speed-strength realm. It's going to depend on individual movements sometimes but I can end up spending more energy on decellerating the damn thing at too low a percentage, as well as losing touch with the bar, as you are saying. May as well be doing medicine ball or smith machine throws..which is a whole nother topic.

If you've ever done medicine ball throws you'll realize that you don't start really relating to the ball until you've gotten very fatigued and it becomes a perceived effort kind of thing. Now, that could help explain the feeling of more benefit from RE work, maybe.

But I think it is an individual thing to some extent and and training status to some extent like you mentioned so what it comes down to is what I always say "what happens is what matters".

For me I tend to get more benefit cycling through from 55 to around 65 percent for a number of weeks and then testing, or backing back down or whatever. Not for all lifts, of course. But again, I believe, and have personally derived the most benefit from the "intention is what matters the most" way of thinking. But I KNOW that some people are different.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:24 PM   #437
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Well I figured out what muscle is sore. I dont' knwo what its called but if you hold your arms straight out in front of you and try to move your arms upwards against a force that is one that is hurting. Oh ya, its only my left for w/e reason.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:51 PM   #438
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You talking about the "empty can test", IW?
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:24 PM   #439
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Friday Aug 22nd/2008

Shoulder is all messed up so I did solely lower body exercises today. I was sad that I couldn't bench.

Squats
-bar x 5
-135lbs x 5
-185lbs x 3
-205lbs x 2
-225lbs x 1
-245lbs x 1
-265lbs x 1
-275lbs x 1 (current PR)
-275lbs x 1(ish)
-225lbs x 5

Well these went quite well today. My spotter barely touched me on the way up on the second single but I don't think it was much.

Light Band Work
Just did some light shoulder movements and some stretching.

Bent Knee GMs
-bar x 5
-95lbs x 5
-115lbs x 3
-135lbs x 3
-155lbs x 3
-175lbs x 1
-185lbs x 0
-135lbs x 5

Back was pretty tired from squats so I didn't have much left. I think I am getting the form down better on these now.


Thougths

I was sad to not be able to work any uppder body. O wellz. Hopefully the weekend off will help my shoudler lots.

Oh yeah, I don't know what the empty cup thing is all about?

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Old 08-23-2008, 11:09 AM   #440
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Look at the links I pointed you to and get back to me. It's probably just rotator cuff tendonitis secondary to overactive deltoids, pecs, lats, etc...maybe a primary impingement.

The empty can test is simiilar to what your described you tried except the thumb is pointed down (like you are emptying a can) and the arm is held in the scapular plane...around 30 degrees in. This is a provocative test for the supraspinatus. There is also the "full can test" which is supposed to be just as good but the thumb isn't held all the way down but just to around 45 degrees. The idea is that this produces compression in the supraspinatus and and tells you its is weak, painful, etc...it's in the link.

Most likely you need to do the standard stuff and you'll be good. Stretch the internal rotators..pecs and lats, do scapular strengthening and stability, and implement rotator cuff strengthening. I would start with the scapular stuff and stretching first before putting in the RC stuff later on. This is just the basic beginning and you can get all the other details from the places I pointed you. Including some other specialized stretches and areas to work on.

Check range of motion in the shoulders with the tests and then correct any deficiencies there (it's easy really).

All this sounds really complicated but it's not. It's just sort of what you do to adress what can typically happen when you do a lot of heavy pressing, etc...and not just that.

You should basically find a lot of differences between the hurting shoulder and the non-hurting shoulder.
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