Kane's DFHT (Courtesy of 0311 once again) - Page 6 - Bodybuilding Discussion on Bodybuilding.net Personal Journals

Kane · 11-29-2006, 09:07 PM

Like I said in my last post, I'm moving to the intensity phase now!

Wednesday:

Olympic Squats: 3x3 225
Benching: (pyramid) 1x3 225
JS Rows: (pyramid) 1x3 255
Cleans: 2x3 155
Accessory (skullcrushers and abs) 2x10

I went nuts today with the weights, felt really fucking strong on everything. I don't see any problems with being able to make the progressions and smash PR's

Kane · 12-01-2006, 01:29 PM

Friday:

Olympic Squats: (reduced 15-20%) 3x3 185
Standing Military Press: 3x3 125
Deadlifts: 3x3 295
RG Pulldowns: 3x3 225
Accessory (incline curls and abs) 2x10

Great day at the gym. Fuckin threw around most of the weights. Standing military is getting pretty heavy though, might not do to much of an increase next workout.

Kane · 12-05-2006, 10:57 AM

Sunday:

Olympic Squats: (pyramid) 1x3 245
Benching: 3x3 205
JS Rows: 3x3 205
Accessory (weighted dips and abs) 2x10

Good workout, starting to squat some pretty big numbers (for me anyway

). Bench was a little shaky, could be lack of rest or something gay like that

Darkhorse · 12-05-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Standing military is getting pretty heavy though, might not do to much of an increase next workout.

Hey bud, OHP's are a very TECHNICAL exercise IMO. When I used to do these (when I first started), I was guilty of pressing the bar straight up, essentially in front of my head. Most people are, and just don't know it yet. Another problem I had was that I used to turn it into a sort of incline press because I leaned back too far for the last reps. This was all my past problems with the exercise....

Reynolds had some great suggestions that really helped me. If you're technique is close to perfect with these, you'll press A LOT more weight with LESS overall effort.

His suggestion was to pull your head "through the hole". This elliminates both of these problems. What this means is that once the bar goes from your upper clavicle to clearing past your head, you push your head/neck forward, and press the bar directly over your middle/rear area of your head. So the barbell travels from forward to back from beginning to end of the press.

You may be doing that already. But, I thought I was good to go, yet was struggling with [lighter for me weights] until I really focused on the path of the bar and correctly pressing the bar straight up vs. pressing it in front of my body.

The hardest part of this exercise is not using a little leg into the lift if it's strict OHP's. So fucking tempting.

Also, if you have time, I suggest watching World's Strongest Man on ESPN2. When I watch ALL of them do the standing log press, they have perfect technique, and you can see the log actually almost be pressed behind their heads! With 300-400 lb logs, they have to have good technique!

EricT · 12-05-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311

Hey bud, OHP's are a very TECHNICAL exercise IMO. When I used to do these (when I first started), I was guilty of pressing the bar straight up, essentially in front of my head. Most people are, and just don't know it yet. Another problem I had was that I used to turn it into a sort of incline press because I leaned back too far for the last reps. This was all my past problems with the exercise....

Right on the money. I was just saying the same thing to someone else.

But I'm not sure about these instructions from Matt. Is he saying to lower your head or actually push the neck and head forward sort of like a buzzard? It sounds like the latter. I can't say I feel good about that as posturing the neck in this way is really one of the worst things you can do during ANY heavy lifting. It's really a no no and leads to cervical strains/injury as well as shoulder problems. I actually just concentrate on lifting the weight straight up and over my head which means I have to pull my face back out of the way a little but I don't look up at the ceiling or anything.

Lower Cervical Disc Injury
Injuries occurred almost exclusively during exercises where a) the lower cervical spine was in a flexed position (the chin was protracted and forward of the torso and b) a muscular force was produced in response to a resistance, which further flexed the lower cervical spine (C5-C7). This may cause trauma to the ligaments and discs resulting in referred pain to a variety of soft tissue and peripheral locations.
If loading occurs when the neck is in this position, forces are directed along the cervical spine's longitudinal axis, initially causing compressive deformation. When the head is held in neutral position the loading forces dissipate in lateral flexion, flexion or extension. Thus, the cervical spine is able to sustain loading due to the ability of the musculature, intervertebral discs and ligaments to absorb energy. (Taylor)

Most of the time behind the neck presses are talked about or things where the neck muscles are loaded but I wouln't purposely place the neck in a non neutral position when the spine is loaded if I could avoid it. That would inculde military press, squats.

I'll add this to be thorough:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Weitz

CERVICAL SPINE INJURIES

While not as common as back injuries, neck injuries occur fairly frequently in weight lifters. Cervical spine problems include mechanical sprains and strains, disc injuries, and brachial plexus injuries. Soft tissue injuries may result from protruding the head forward or from unnecessarily tensing the neck while weight training. Some problems result from a muscle imbalance syndrome similar to the "upper crossed syndrome" described by Janda.(46) This problem occurs because of imbalance in training programs that involve an inordinate amount of exercise for the pectorals, the front delts, the lats, and the biceps and very little training of antagonist muscle groups. The result can be overly developed and tight pectoralis major and minor, latissimus dorsi, front deltoids, trapezium, biceps, and stemocleidomastoid muscles, especially if proper attention has not been given to maintaining flexibility in these muscle groups. It is often accompanied by relative weakness of the middle and lower trapezium, rhomboids, the upper thoracic extensors, the deep neck flexors, the rear delts, and the external shoulder rotators (the infraspinatus and the teres minor).(33) It results in the rounded shoulder, forward head posture frequently seen in bodybuilders.

Exercises in which the head is allowed to nod or protrude forward may contribute to cervical spine injury by either promoting the postural defect noted previously, or by predisposing the athlete to cervical disc problems. The tendency to jut the head forward in exercises such as shrugs (Figs 3 and 4), behind the neck presses (Fig 5), behind the neck pulldowns, lateral shoulder raises (Fig 6), triceps extensions, curls, incline leg presses, and abdominal crunches promotes the development of the rounded shoulder, forward head posture. This posture is associated with abnormal mechanical function of the cervical spine. It is characterized by adaptive shortening of the suboccipital muscles, the stemocleidomastoid and the anterior scalene muscles, and excessive tension and weakening of the long cervical extensor muscles, the levator scapulae and the scapular retractor muscles. Trigger points and/or muscle strain may result in any of these muscles. Either upper cervical or cervico-thoracic joint dysfunction may result. Not only do cervical pain syndromes occur, but also temporomandibular joint dysfunction and headache. (47,48)

Kane · 12-05-2006, 07:18 PM

Thanks Guys! I'll keep a close eye on my form to see what I'm actually doing when I normally do it and adjust it so that my form is dead-fuckin-on (or close to it lol)

Great posts from both of you, much appreciated!

And I'm definitely watchin the strongman shit...it gets me fired up for lifting days like nothing else

Darkhorse · 12-05-2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Is he saying to lower your head or actually push the neck and head forward sort of like a buzzard?

LOL, no!.. When I start off, with the bar resting on my clavicle, I begin the press looking slightly UP. Once the bar clears my head, he had me lean forward with my upper body and head (so that my body is straight and aligned). I don't think I could push forward that much!

Kane · 12-05-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311

When I start off, with the bar resting on my clavicle, I begin the press looking slightly UP. Once the bar clears my head, he had me lean forward with my upper body and head (so that my body is straight and aligned). I don't think I could push forward that much!

That's how I kinda pictured it. Almost like doing the motion of a behind the head press from the chin and up, beginning in front of the neck instead of behind. (If that makes sense lol?)

EricT · 12-09-2006, 06:28 PM

OOPS, sorry it took me so long to get back to this discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311

When I start off, with the bar resting on my clavicle, I begin the press looking slightly UP. Once the bar clears my head, he had me lean forward with my upper body and head (so that my body is straight and aligned). I don't think I could push forward that much!

That makes more sense! You DID say push the head and neck forward, so I got confused

. What you described is kinda what I tend to do naturally when the weight gets heavy so I know what you're saying. Like you mentioned you can't really push forward that much. Glad we got to the bottom of that

.

Kane, however you think of it, my main point was always try to keep the head as naturally alligned as possible. "Buzzard neck" is a pretty common affliction that needs to be avoided.

Kane · 12-09-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric3237

Kane, however you think of it, my main point was always try to keep the head as naturally alligned as possible. "Buzzard neck" is a pretty common affliction that needs to be avoided.

Roger that

11-29-2006, 09:07 PM	#51 (permalink)
Kane Rank: Lightweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,596 Country: Gender:	Intensity Phase!!! Like I said in my last post, I'm moving to the intensity phase now! Wednesday: Olympic Squats: 3x3 225 Benching: (pyramid) 1x3 225 JS Rows: (pyramid) 1x3 255 Cleans: 2x3 155 Accessory (skullcrushers and abs) 2x10 I went nuts today with the weights, felt really fucking strong on everything. I don't see any problems with being able to make the progressions and smash PR's
	Kane's Sig:Bench:275 [1x1] Deadlift:365 [1x3] A2G Squat:275 [1x3] "Shut up and squat!" "NO, this is my squat rack. Go get your own!"

12-01-2006, 01:29 PM	#52 (permalink)
Kane Rank: Lightweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,596 Country: Gender:	Friday: Olympic Squats: (reduced 15-20%) 3x3 185 Standing Military Press: 3x3 125 Deadlifts: 3x3 295 RG Pulldowns: 3x3 225 Accessory (incline curls and abs) 2x10 Great day at the gym. Fuckin threw around most of the weights. Standing military is getting pretty heavy though, might not do to much of an increase next workout.
	Kane's Sig:Bench:275 [1x1] Deadlift:365 [1x3] A2G Squat:275 [1x3] "Shut up and squat!" "NO, this is my squat rack. Go get your own!"

12-05-2006, 10:57 AM	#53 (permalink)
Kane Rank: Lightweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,596 Country: Gender:	Sunday: Olympic Squats: (pyramid) 1x3 245 Benching: 3x3 205 JS Rows: 3x3 205 Accessory (weighted dips and abs) 2x10 Good workout, starting to squat some pretty big numbers (for me anyway ). Bench was a little shaky, could be lack of rest or something gay like that
	Kane's Sig:Bench:275 [1x1] Deadlift:365 [1x3] A2G Squat:275 [1x3] "Shut up and squat!" "NO, this is my squat rack. Go get your own!"

12-05-2006, 07:18 PM	#56 (permalink)
Kane Rank: Lightweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,596 Country: Gender:	Thanks Guys! I'll keep a close eye on my form to see what I'm actually doing when I normally do it and adjust it so that my form is dead-fuckin-on (or close to it lol) Great posts from both of you, much appreciated! And I'm definitely watchin the strongman shit...it gets me fired up for lifting days like nothing else
	Kane's Sig:Bench:275 [1x1] Deadlift:365 [1x3] A2G Squat:275 [1x3] "Shut up and squat!" "NO, this is my squat rack. Go get your own!"

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