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Personal Journals discussion on Kane's Training, within the Members Section; When I do my workouts I always go full out and I find I don't have enough energy to do ...


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Old 11-19-2005, 05:47 PM   #11
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When I do my workouts I always go full out and I find I don't have enough energy to do two intense workouts on major muscle groups, so I've been trying to do a major group by itself and then do multiple muscle groups with smaller muscles
You're definately doing too much then. You don't need a thousand different sets with a thousand different angles to hit the same muscle! Back you can break down to [width: Pullups, Pulldowns-many different grips], [thickness: Deadlifts, Rows-multiple angles/types], then maybe include traps in there as well. Chest can be broken down into something simple like flat, incline, decline. All three movements work the same muscle, just to varying degrees. Now, would this workout be too much for you?

Flat Bench- 5 x 5
Pulldowns- 5 x 5
Incline Dumbbell- 3 x 10
Rows- 3 x 8-12

That's all you need. That's only 8 sets per bodypart. Now, pairing muscles like that will allow you to increase the frequency. That workout doesn't sound advanced like Peter does it??

Sorry to hog your journal, but it's very misleading for people to tell you that you cannot pair muscles because you aren't advanced enough. In keeping with the example I put down, it would be easy to do legs/abs the next day, then shoulders/biceps/triceps the following. Take a day off then start again, possibly further condensing your muscles. If you want me to give you a much more efficient workout, I'll do so unless you think yours is worthy of the 'ol college try.

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Old 11-19-2005, 06:08 PM   #12
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Okay, now you asked for criticism, so I'll try and give some constructive c's-
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I'd be happy to hear any criticism or comments on this routine
It looks like Dave has your diet q's covered so I won't even bother. For your routine however-
1. Frequency is the absolute best asset for non-steroidal gains. Bottom line. What you have there is technically gaining for 3 days, maintaining for 4 days. Let me explain. After a heavy bout of lifting, your muscles will have 72 hours worth of elevated protein synthesis. This means that you will be growing for the 3 days. Once protein synthesis returns back to baseline, you'll stop growing until you hit those muscles again....Follow me? Now, your routine would work if you were either brand new to lifting (newb gains) or if you were on some type of gear. Steroids have the remarkable quality to elevate synthesis indefinately. That's why the best bodybuilders stress "destroying" their muscles with a million sets of extremely high volume once per week. So, in light of all the current research (I'll post if you want), it's the most beneficial to hit your muscles between two-three times a week.

Everyday you have a ton of exercises that all work the same exact muscle. Again, why do all that when doing half will be just as beneficial. Take back for example, you have deadlifts, barbell rows, cable rows, flyes, AND dumbbell rows!! They all work the same muscle. I'd pick deadlifts, maybe a few sets of rows, then move on to your pullups/pulldowns.

Biceps. Here's a anatomical exam on them. Bi-ceps, the Bi meaning 2 (heads). They both get stimulated doing any type of curls. There is no such thing as focusing on just the peak, then the outer half, ect. Up in the sticky I posted Arnold S. shit from his encyclopedia. Later on I've found through my researching the net, pubmed, ect that he's wrong. Concentration curls increase tut (time under tension) and little else. Definately not a good choice. You still need to pick exercises heavy enough to cause a growth response such as barbell curls, followed by maby incline dumbbell curls, then lastly hammer curls (which are more for your forearm). That's all you'll need.

Any type of flyes don't do really anything by themselves. However, if you were to say do a set of chest presses supersetted with the flyes then that would work. The flyes will increase the TUT after the heavy presses which will in turn create greater hypertrophy.

-I wouldn't recommend any of the machines for presses. I hurt my shoulder doing them because they are an unnatural movement. Just stick to the basics using mostly compound free weight exercises and you'll stand to benefit more with size and strength.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:34 PM   #13
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Thanks guys; 0311, verbatimreturned and chinpiecedave, I will take your advice into account and see if I can make my workout stonger and get maximum gains. The whole purpose of joining this forum, for me anyway, was to get help from experienced lifters, and so far you guys have given me the best help. 0311, I have been reading your posts and I believe you know what you are talking about and I value your advice, so thank you very much. I will keep you guys posted. And, yes 0311, a more efficient workout schedule would be much appreciated, I am new to this and I am experimenting, I've only been lifting serioulsy for about 1 year and I am trying to find a workout that is most effective to me.

Kane
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Old 11-20-2005, 01:50 AM   #14
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Well, it seems you are used to one muscle per day with a lot of volume. Since that is working for you, I'd recommend sticking with it, but changing your exercise selection. Usually the first year or two you'll gain no matter what. However, at some point, your gains will plateau. This is where the increased frequency comes in. For now, I'd recommend looking at a program like OVT: Optimized Volume Training. You keep the once a week frequency (because it's working), but the exercises are more optimal. Here's the program:

The OVT Program:

DAY 1- Chest/Back
Day 2- Legs/Abs
Day 3- OFF
Day 4- Biceps/Triceps
Day 5- OFF
Day 6- Deltoids/Traps
Day 7- OFF

The Routine: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459276

Day One

A1-Bench Press-- 5 x 5, tempo of 2-0-1, No rest interval
A2-Flat Dumbbell Flyes--5 x 5, tempo of 6-0-2, 120 seconds rest.

B1-Incline Bench
B2-Incline Flyes

C1-Lat Pulldown
C2-Pullovers

D1-Barbell Rows
D2-Seated Cable Row


Day Two

A1-Front Squat (same)
A2-Lunges

B1-Machine Squat
B2-Leg curls

C1-Deadlifts
C2-Calves

Day Four

A1-Barbell Curls (same)
A2-Dumbbell Curls

B1-Preacher Curls
B2-Hammer Curls

C1-Weighted Dips
C2-Triceps Extentions

D1-Cable Pressdowns
D2-Reverse Curls

Day Six

A1-Barbell Press
A2-Wide Grip Upright Rows

B1-Machine Press
B2-Side Laterals

C1-Bent Over Laterals
C2-Machine Rear Delts

D1-Shrugs
D2-Close Grip Upright Rows

Basically, what you have is a total of 100 reps per bodypart. Every set is in fact a superset of two exercises working the same muscle group.

The first exercise in the superset is a big compound movement (e.g. bench press, squat, deadlift, row, even clean or snatch) and it's done for five reps using as much weight as possible.

The second exercise in the superset is an isolation movement for the main muscle being worked in the first exercise. This second exercise is also done for five reps, but with a small load and a very slow tempo.
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:08 AM   #15
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A1-Bench Press-- 5 x 5, tempo of 2-0-1, No rest interval
A2-Flat Dumbbell Flyes--5 x 5, tempo of 6-0-2, 120 seconds rest.
Just in case you don't quite understand everything, this is what it means...

The first set (A1, B1, C1, ect) will be 5 sets of 5 reps with the same weight for every set. Using bench press as an example. You would pick a weight that you can do all 5 sets of 5 reps with. Let's use 135 lbs for example.

The second set (A2, B2, C2, ect) will be a superset with a lot lighter weight. The tempo will be 6-0-2. This means 6 seconds down, no pause, 2 seconds up. The only goal of this set is to increase TUT and total volume for added growth. For this example, we'll use 20 lb dumbbells.

So, on chest/back day, you'll grab a set of 20 lb dumbbells and head over to the barbell flat bench. After a few warmup sets using the barbell, you put on 135 lbs...

Set 1- 135 lbs X 5 solid reps. As soon as you re-rack the barbell, you grab your 20 lbs. dumbbells and do 5 reps of flat dumbbell flyes, ensuring that each rep takes about 6 seconds to get down, then another 2 seconds to get back to the top. Once you complete 5 slow reps, you have 120 seconds rest before you do set 2. Two minutes is a lot of time. It's also wise to undershoot your weight selection your first week to measure your tolerancy.

Set 2- Same thing...And so on.

-It's your choice. If you decide to stick with what you have in regards to the type of training, then I'd recommend switching out and dropping some of your exercises. I personally really like this training I outlined here. If you click on the link provided in the previous post, scroll down to the bottom where it has a lot of people's testimonies to how the program worked for them.
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:25 AM   #16
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Thanks 0311, That routine looks really good. I'm excited to see how it does. One question on it though, how come there are so many days off? 3 seems like alot of 'off' time.
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Old 11-20-2005, 11:17 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Kane
I don't really measure my intake of carbs and fat all that much :o
:eek:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane
I usually try and have about 4 meals a week with alot of carbs, usually pasta.
Throughout the week I'll eat subs and sandwiches, so I get carbs there too.
not bad but if you don't already, you need some more fruit and veggies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane
I have a good BF% (18) so I have been trying to just maintain that, , so I get alot of fat from pizza .
that's fine, just moderate your intake of pizza. How much cardio do you do? I would say you should do more just to maintain and maybe burn a little more fat for those late night study sessions with 2:00am pizza snacks :cool:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane
I am a student right now. I don't know what the right amount(fat carbs) would be for me.
good, got some homework for you. If you haven't' read the nutritional stickys yet do so on clean bulking. also look into cutting for after your bulk cycle. your on the right track just read as much info from this site and every other site you can find. every time I go on forums I learn something new. never stop learning about bodybuilding is always my mentality.

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Old 11-20-2005, 11:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane
Thanks 0311, That routine looks really good. I'm excited to see how it does. One question on it though, how come there are so many days off? 3 seems like alot of 'off' time.
trust him, you will need those days off with the volume you will be pushing your body to complete. I use to think the same thing but ever since I tried more volume training methods I've realized that your typical "one body part a day" routines with only one or two days off was not the most efficient workout compared to the volume ones
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Old 11-20-2005, 11:30 AM   #19
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0311, I love the workout you suggested. been meaning to try it out myself. and T-nation is a great sight for information about bodybuilding.
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Old 11-20-2005, 01:33 PM   #20
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Thanks for the feedback Dave. I'm getting a pretty good supply of fruits and veggies right now so that's fine.

I don't do too much cardio, usually about 30min on the bike twice a week, I do quite a bit of walking going from class to class as well.

I've been reading my b*lls off lately just trying to see everyone's take on bodybuilding, nutrition, etc. Everyone has something different to bring to the table.
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