Marv's Journal - Page 4 - Bodybuilding Discussion on Bodybuilding.net Personal Journals

marv · 10-02-2007, 01:27 AM

Tuesday 30th September:

Squat 98kg 3x5
Press 55kg 2x5,1x4

Squats went ok, my technique feels better with Heavy Weight though. I'll work on it. Hold my breath, Budda Belly, sit back and drive up with the hips. I'm planning to by a belt for my PR Squats, any advice, does it make the exercise less effective or is it an advantage allowing more weight to be lifted? Press went better than expected I was only shooting for 3x4.

Marv.

HIThopper · 10-02-2007, 02:51 AM

I think this is a sticky over at IAs site

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ight=wear+belt

Dude is very convincing!!

Also I recently asked the same question myself and 311 recommended this

http://www.inzernet.com/index.asp

Gotta save the $ myself first but I hear nothing but good feedback about them.

BTW Eric will chew us both out for this belt thing!

marv · 10-02-2007, 04:30 AM

Hmmm,

I just read some old post's I might just work on holding my breath and pushing my abb's out for now. Thanks anyway Hopps.

Eric3237 · 10-02-2007, 01:37 PM

Good man. You can drop a lot of names that recommend belts and you can also drop a lot of names who don't. Siff was an engineer btw, not a kinesology or biomecanics professer. If you get injured because you didn't wear a belt it is not necessarily because you didn't wear a belt. It could just be because you fucked up. There is a time for belts...but for EVERYONE whenever they do triples or 5's? I don't believe that. I only wear belts sometimes doing rack pulls or anything of that nature where the weight is way above my normal ability on squats or deads. Otherwise I don't feel I need it.

I'm honestly not bothering to talk about belts anymore

. People just need to know that they better spend plenty of time not wearing it too and not all of that work without the belt should be shit light. And as for as CORE work....situps and all the other shit people call core work is really just ab strenghtheing work. It does not necessarily train stabilbility. You WILL become dependent on a belt if you wear it too much. Then if you overestimate yourself one day on something without the belt you will be MORE prone to injury.

One practice I HATE is the practice of recommending belts out of pure paranoia over getting sued if someone gets and injury. Ok, so this is provided for entertainment purposes only and I assume NO responsibility for any screwed up thing whoever may be reading this does in the gym. Train at your own risk.

OK, so I'm covered

. But seriously, could a personal trainer also get sued if they failed to tell someone to take in a good breath into the belly, tighten there abs and hold their breath? This has been shown to increase IAP better than a belt in routine lifting tasks and indeed the most benefit with belts has been shown with intensitiels over 90%. Course then you could injure your back due to your detrained extensors when you move that heavy ass This End Up solid wood sofa in your living room. Then you could sue the guy for TELLING you to use a belt. It's just silly.

If you feel vulnerable and that you need a belt you probably do. But if you need a belt to do PR days on an intemediate program then you probably haven't been training well in the first place or you have a really bad back or something.

I will tell all you guys this who like to wear belts on every thing they do. When you end up injuring your back or something the one time you lift heavy without the belt, don't come asking me to help rehabilitate it

marv · 10-02-2007, 02:00 PM

Thanks Eric,

I will leave the belt idea for heavy rack pulls or heavy 1's in the future.

Marv.

Eric3237 · 10-02-2007, 02:45 PM

LOL, please reread that post wihout the quadrillion typos and the bad wording. That was the very worst thing I ever wrote

. I hope it made sense.

marv · 10-03-2007, 11:44 PM

Thursday 4th October;

Squat 142.5kg 1x5
Bench 117.5kg 1x3
Deadlift 165kg 1x5
Chins 1x10,1x9,1x6
Hanging Leg Raise 3x10
Calve Raise 360lbs 3x5

I need to work on Holding my breath and pushing out the abbs on Squats, it doesnt feel natural. Usually I just relax the stomach and breath out as I drive up, is this a bad habit Eric?? I know it feels more stable to take a breath, tense the abbs and push them out.

Marv.

Eric3237 · 10-04-2007, 11:51 AM

Relaxing the stomach is definitely a bad habit. It's funny that it would feel more natural to you. Tightening up the abs under heavy load is a sort of natural response.

In any case, in order to be the most stable and protect the spine you need to tighten up. The best approach, imo, is the valsalva maneuver. So you take in a good breath of air low down into the diaphragm, not the chest. And then you tighten the abs. With squats you should do that at the top. On deads some people do it at the bottom getting ready for the lift and others at the top if they have difficulty getting a breath of air in the bottom position.

On the breathing I think there are two different sides to it. On one hand I believe that no one should have to concentrate on artificial modes of breathing, that they naturally know what they need to do and shouldn't be preoccupied with anything but proper lifting. On the other hand it's pretty clear that what you've described increases IAP greatly and provides the most stable midsection. Unless you are a Chek disciple, and although, he provides a lot of good info on this, and has probably helped hundreds, I think he goes a little bit berserk in his enthusiasm for the wonders of the TVA.

It's good to start with a full breath in and tight as possible midsection. But holding the breath all the way can be a little problematic especially with more volume. As you go up it is probably fine to let some air escape, but without loosening up. But holding the breath is probably safer than having a belt tightly cinched since that holds the blood up high and restricts breathing, severely screwing with blood pressure. And with belts they have to be tightly cinched in order to actually do anything.

What I do with the really heavy stuff is grunt on the way up. I am mostly holding my breath but just letting a little go as I rise. Grunting or making a sound like that is the best way of controlling air flow.

marv · 10-04-2007, 11:57 PM

Eric, thanks mate. Well explained, I think I have been over thinking this whole thing. Just a tight mid section, maybe let out a little air on the way up, sounds good.

Marv.

marv · 10-06-2007, 07:15 PM

Just back from the BATTLEFIELD!!!

Sunday 7th October:

Volume Day:
Squat 125kg 3x5
Bench 105kg 3x5
Rows 95kg 3x5
Gripwork 3x5

Everything is coming together, Squats felt good, tight torso, Im starting to find my Groove on the Bench, Rows are coming along.
Progress as usual, a good day. I get to Bench 120kg on Thursday.

Marv.

10-02-2007, 01:37 PM	#34 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,028 Country: Gender:	Good man. You can drop a lot of names that recommend belts and you can also drop a lot of names who don't. Siff was an engineer btw, not a kinesology or biomecanics professer. If you get injured because you didn't wear a belt it is not necessarily because you didn't wear a belt. It could just be because you fucked up. There is a time for belts...but for EVERYONE whenever they do triples or 5's? I don't believe that. I only wear belts sometimes doing rack pulls or anything of that nature where the weight is way above my normal ability on squats or deads. Otherwise I don't feel I need it. I'm honestly not bothering to talk about belts anymore . People just need to know that they better spend plenty of time not wearing it too and not all of that work without the belt should be shit light. And as for as CORE work....situps and all the other shit people call core work is really just ab strenghtheing work. It does not necessarily train stabilbility. You WILL become dependent on a belt if you wear it too much. Then if you overestimate yourself one day on something without the belt you will be MORE prone to injury. One practice I HATE is the practice of recommending belts out of pure paranoia over getting sued if someone gets and injury. Ok, so this is provided for entertainment purposes only and I assume NO responsibility for any screwed up thing whoever may be reading this does in the gym. Train at your own risk. OK, so I'm covered . But seriously, could a personal trainer also get sued if they failed to tell someone to take in a good breath into the belly, tighten there abs and hold their breath? This has been shown to increase IAP better than a belt in routine lifting tasks and indeed the most benefit with belts has been shown with intensitiels over 90%. Course then you could injure your back due to your detrained extensors when you move that heavy ass This End Up solid wood sofa in your living room. Then you could sue the guy for TELLING you to use a belt. It's just silly. If you feel vulnerable and that you need a belt you probably do. But if you need a belt to do PR days on an intemediate program then you probably haven't been training well in the first place or you have a really bad back or something. I will tell all you guys this who like to wear belts on every thing they do. When you end up injuring your back or something the one time you lift heavy without the belt, don't come asking me to help rehabilitate it Last edited by Eric3237; 10-03-2007 at 09:00 AM.
	Eric3237's Sig:"Not everyone trains for strength": True. Not everyone one is smart either. Personally, I'm training to be an olympic sprinter so I can have big legs. I also like to move huge boulders because I like the way they look over there...

10-02-2007, 02:45 PM	#36 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,028 Country: Gender:	LOL, please reread that post wihout the quadrillion typos and the bad wording. That was the very worst thing I ever wrote . I hope it made sense.
	Eric3237's Sig:"Not everyone trains for strength": True. Not everyone one is smart either. Personally, I'm training to be an olympic sprinter so I can have big legs. I also like to move huge boulders because I like the way they look over there...

10-04-2007, 11:51 AM	#38 (permalink)
Eric3237 Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,028 Country: Gender:	Relaxing the stomach is definitely a bad habit. It's funny that it would feel more natural to you. Tightening up the abs under heavy load is a sort of natural response. In any case, in order to be the most stable and protect the spine you need to tighten up. The best approach, imo, is the valsalva maneuver. So you take in a good breath of air low down into the diaphragm, not the chest. And then you tighten the abs. With squats you should do that at the top. On deads some people do it at the bottom getting ready for the lift and others at the top if they have difficulty getting a breath of air in the bottom position. On the breathing I think there are two different sides to it. On one hand I believe that no one should have to concentrate on artificial modes of breathing, that they naturally know what they need to do and shouldn't be preoccupied with anything but proper lifting. On the other hand it's pretty clear that what you've described increases IAP greatly and provides the most stable midsection. Unless you are a Chek disciple, and although, he provides a lot of good info on this, and has probably helped hundreds, I think he goes a little bit berserk in his enthusiasm for the wonders of the TVA. It's good to start with a full breath in and tight as possible midsection. But holding the breath all the way can be a little problematic especially with more volume. As you go up it is probably fine to let some air escape, but without loosening up. But holding the breath is probably safer than having a belt tightly cinched since that holds the blood up high and restricts breathing, severely screwing with blood pressure. And with belts they have to be tightly cinched in order to actually do anything. What I do with the really heavy stuff is grunt on the way up. I am mostly holding my breath but just letting a little go as I rise. Grunting or making a sound like that is the best way of controlling air flow.
	Eric3237's Sig:"Not everyone trains for strength": True. Not everyone one is smart either. Personally, I'm training to be an olympic sprinter so I can have big legs. I also like to move huge boulders because I like the way they look over there...

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10-02-2007, 01:27 AM	#31 (permalink)
marv Rank: Member Experience: 2-3 Years Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 290 Country: Gender:	Tuesday 30th September: Squat 98kg 3x5 Press 55kg 2x5,1x4 Squats went ok, my technique feels better with Heavy Weight though. I'll work on it. Hold my breath, Budda Belly, sit back and drive up with the hips. I'm planning to by a belt for my PR Squats, any advice, does it make the exercise less effective or is it an advantage allowing more weight to be lifted? Press went better than expected I was only shooting for 3x4. Marv.

10-02-2007, 02:51 AM	#32 (permalink)
HIThopper Rank: Bantamweight Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 543 Country: Gender:	I think this is a sticky over at IAs site http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ight=wear+belt Dude is very convincing!! Also I recently asked the same question myself and 311 recommended this http://www.inzernet.com/index.asp Gotta save the $ myself first but I hear nothing but good feedback about them. BTW Eric will chew us both out for this belt thing!

10-02-2007, 04:30 AM	#33 (permalink)
marv Rank: Member Experience: 2-3 Years Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 290 Country: Gender:	Hmmm, I just read some old post's I might just work on holding my breath and pushing my abb's out for now. Thanks anyway Hopps.

10-02-2007, 02:00 PM	#35 (permalink)
marv Rank: Member Experience: 2-3 Years Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 290 Country: Gender:	Thanks Eric, I will leave the belt idea for heavy rack pulls or heavy 1's in the future. Marv.

10-03-2007, 11:44 PM	#37 (permalink)
marv Rank: Member Experience: 2-3 Years Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 290 Country: Gender:	Thursday 4th October; Squat 142.5kg 1x5 Bench 117.5kg 1x3 Deadlift 165kg 1x5 Chins 1x10,1x9,1x6 Hanging Leg Raise 3x10 Calve Raise 360lbs 3x5 I need to work on Holding my breath and pushing out the abbs on Squats, it doesnt feel natural. Usually I just relax the stomach and breath out as I drive up, is this a bad habit Eric?? I know it feels more stable to take a breath, tense the abbs and push them out. Marv.

10-04-2007, 11:57 PM	#39 (permalink)
marv Rank: Member Experience: 2-3 Years Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 290 Country: Gender:	Eric, thanks mate. Well explained, I think I have been over thinking this whole thing. Just a tight mid section, maybe let out a little air on the way up, sounds good. Marv.

10-06-2007, 07:15 PM	#40 (permalink)
marv Rank: Member Experience: 2-3 Years Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 290 Country: Gender:	Just back from the BATTLEFIELD!!! Sunday 7th October: Volume Day: Squat 125kg 3x5 Bench 105kg 3x5 Rows 95kg 3x5 Gripwork 3x5 Everything is coming together, Squats felt good, tight torso, Im starting to find my Groove on the Bench, Rows are coming along. Progress as usual, a good day. I get to Bench 120kg on Thursday. Marv.

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