Ross' Strength Journal - Page 42 - Bodybuilding Discussion on Bodybuilding.net Personal Journals

Darkhorse · 07-09-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

I have thought, for quite some time now, that if you don't love the program and love the results that you simply are asking for failure. People who love what they do push and get results. People who don't tend to spin wheels, make excuses and half ass it.

Funny you mention that because that's exactly my train of thought as well, and I put in the westside 3 day thread (last post). If you don't believe in what you're doing, you won't be successful IME. Goes for diet as well. The more you don't believe in the fundamentals, the chances greatly increase that you'll start cheating, then drop it and get discouraged altogether.

Andrew.cook · 07-09-2008, 12:48 PM

Ross, if you can get a good reason behind your programming, it might help you stay focused in your program. When I train people (not often because most are not willing to put forth the effort they need to, and I won't be associated with failure if I can help it) I always make sure that people can explain what they are doing, and why they are doing it. I'm a BIG fan of unusual methods, but I make sure that my trainees can state why they are doing the crazy crap I might have them do. It is important that they understand the benefit, and that they can explain to a questioning onlooker what is going on. Imagine if every idiot in your gym said "Why are you doing that? You will hurt yourself" or whatever. It might have you doubting your progress or safety pretty quickly, right? Once doubt factors in... poof, your success stops.

I wasn't asking to instate doubt, I was hoping you had answers

Ross86 · 07-09-2008, 07:51 PM

You two have uncovered my biggest downfall in regards to bodybuilding knowledge.

When I read something or learn something new, I typically only remember the punch line. I have a very, very, very hard time retaining the reason why. I could walk through a supplement store and tell you what practically every ingredient in every product does, but I can't tell you why...even though I once knew. I've forgotten more than twice as much as I know. But I'll be talking with Mike about it when I get back in town.

For right now, I know what I'm doing and what my goal is. It made perfect sense when he explained it and I agreed with him. I worked legs right after and now it's all hazy.

After he explained it, I guess I accepted the reason why and forgot or something...it happens a lot. It's kind of aggravating. I know you guys aren't trying to pick on me. Since you mentioned it, I'm curious too.

I won't become discouraged though. The fact that I understood, agreed, and started the program is all the affirmation I need. One of my focuses now is trying to push myself harder than I pushed myself during the previous workout. That's how I'm gauging my success/progress right now. I'm going to lay out a linear progression and bring a watch with me so I can start making sure my rest times are exactly the same. Taking 30 more seconds means at least 2 more reps and that messes me up. Since starting this program, every workout I have had has been more demanding and intense than the one before it.

Andrew.cook · 07-10-2008, 11:23 AM

I've heard people talk about being so specific with the timing of their rest. I'm not sold that this is a good way to make sure that all things are equal. Here is why...

Some days will simply be better than others. Either due to stress or how much sleep you got or what you ate. Not all days in the gym are created equal to begin with. I would be far more tempted to simply pay attention to how you FEEL your recovery between sets is going. Some days I push things along, and some days I know that it is more important to hit the reps I'm going for than to rush things.

Now, assuming you are not working with % intensity as your primary factor for determining advancement (you don't base your gains on a rise in your 1RM) then I'll assume the goal is to get more reps than last time? Perhaps a little bit of both somehow? Regardless, the only time I would worry about manipulating time is if TIME is how you are judging progress. For instance, Last weekend I did 40 flips of my 500lb tire. I gave myself 30 seconds to complete each rep, and I had decided that I would stop if I could not complete each rep in that time period. Turns out this was actually pretty easy. I was sore none the less, but completing the full set wasn't an issue. I can't go up and down in weight... the tire is what it is. Because this is almost purely metabolic conditioning for me, reducing recovery time is important. I would like to be able to reduce my flips down to something in the 5-6 second range and still knock out 40 reps. That is a long way from here, but it is a goal. Next time I do this work (about once a month, perhaps) I will drop my rest times. Maybe something like 25 seconds. In this case monitoring time is important, but in all of my other work... not so much. Why? Because I have decided that the important thing is to nail all my reps at a certain intensity. No more, no less, just get what I need to get and be done with it. If the goal was to just get one more rep (and some of my lifts use this protocol, though it is typically a bodyweight exercise) then I set a total time, and the goal is to cram more work into the same time frame. Rest isn't important. If the work is being done faster, then more rest might be needed. I'm not worried about rest times, only how many situps I can knock out in 2 minutes, or how many pullups... etc.

So you may want to figure out what the measure of your success is. If it depends on you completing reps, then watching a clock isn't as important as being rested.

Andrew.cook · 07-10-2008, 11:25 AM

Oh, and for what it is worth, more people blindly follow a workout with absolutely NO knowledge of why it works than... well, it is a crap ton, we will leave it there

The fact that you knew one time is a step up. I just think it might be more meaningful if you heard it, understood it and could explain it back to guys on the internet like me

Ross86 · 07-10-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew.cook

Oh, and for what it is worth, more people blindly follow a workout with absolutely NO knowledge of why it works than... well, it is a crap ton, we will leave it there

The fact that you knew one time is a step up. I just think it might be more meaningful if you heard it, understood it and could explain it back to guys on the internet like me

Hahaha. It is a very unorthodox program. After he explained it, he explained the common misconception of his program and why it would work despite that misconception. I also do not remember that part. He will be at the gym when I train tomorrow, so that's when the explanation will come.

If I didn't understand the program or why it would work or had any major objections, then I wouldn't have done it. It wouldn't make sense for anyone to start a program that they don't understand...it happens very frequently though. If I had never understood the program before I started, I hope you would have given me a very hard time and made me feel bad.

Andrew.cook · 07-10-2008, 01:07 PM

Nah, I'm not for giving people a hard time. I am for people to be empowered and have a good grasp of the work they are doing. Most of that comes from a deep seated hatred of sucky trainers

Not saying yours is... but I always kinda wonder.

Ross86 · 07-10-2008, 02:30 PM

Squats - 235 X 13, 9, 7
Leg press - 210 X 23, 15, 11
Leg press - 100 X 12, 8, 5
Narrow stance squats - 155 X 12, 10

Did some work on depth. I've been having a lot of pain when squatting. Solution: Squat deeper. I'll be doing form work and working specifically on depth for my next few leg workouts. That way I'll be able to heal some...leg press still aggravates it.

Andrew.cook · 07-10-2008, 02:43 PM

Ross, are those rest pause sets?

Ross86 · 07-10-2008, 02:46 PM

Yep, but a long pause. Right at 60 seconds between each set this workout. I'm going to try to keep it at exactly 60 seconds from now on. I just looked back and noticed that I never typed "rest pause" anywhere. Oops.

07-09-2008, 07:51 PM	#413 (permalink)
Ross86 Rank: Middleweight Experience: > 1 Year Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,283 Country: Gender:	You two have uncovered my biggest downfall in regards to bodybuilding knowledge. When I read something or learn something new, I typically only remember the punch line. I have a very, very, very hard time retaining the reason why. I could walk through a supplement store and tell you what practically every ingredient in every product does, but I can't tell you why...even though I once knew. I've forgotten more than twice as much as I know. But I'll be talking with Mike about it when I get back in town. For right now, I know what I'm doing and what my goal is. It made perfect sense when he explained it and I agreed with him. I worked legs right after and now it's all hazy. After he explained it, I guess I accepted the reason why and forgot or something...it happens a lot. It's kind of aggravating. I know you guys aren't trying to pick on me. Since you mentioned it, I'm curious too. I won't become discouraged though. The fact that I understood, agreed, and started the program is all the affirmation I need. One of my focuses now is trying to push myself harder than I pushed myself during the previous workout. That's how I'm gauging my success/progress right now. I'm going to lay out a linear progression and bring a watch with me so I can start making sure my rest times are exactly the same. Taking 30 more seconds means at least 2 more reps and that messes me up. Since starting this program, every workout I have had has been more demanding and intense than the one before it.
	Ross86's Sig:"Excuses are the building blocks to a monument of nothingness" - Anonymous Stone Black

07-10-2008, 02:30 PM	#418 (permalink)
Ross86 Rank: Middleweight Experience: > 1 Year Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,283 Country: Gender:	Squats - 235 X 13, 9, 7 Leg press - 210 X 23, 15, 11 Leg press - 100 X 12, 8, 5 Narrow stance squats - 155 X 12, 10 Did some work on depth. I've been having a lot of pain when squatting. Solution: Squat deeper. I'll be doing form work and working specifically on depth for my next few leg workouts. That way I'll be able to heal some...leg press still aggravates it.
	Ross86's Sig:"Excuses are the building blocks to a monument of nothingness" - Anonymous Stone Black

07-10-2008, 02:46 PM	#420 (permalink)
Ross86 Rank: Middleweight Experience: > 1 Year Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,283 Country: Gender:	Yep, but a long pause. Right at 60 seconds between each set this workout. I'm going to try to keep it at exactly 60 seconds from now on. I just looked back and noticed that I never typed "rest pause" anywhere. Oops.
	Ross86's Sig:"Excuses are the building blocks to a monument of nothingness" - Anonymous Stone Black

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-09-2008, 12:48 PM	#412 (permalink)
Andrew.cook Banned Rank: Member Experience: 10+ Years Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 353 Country: Gender:	Ross, if you can get a good reason behind your programming, it might help you stay focused in your program. When I train people (not often because most are not willing to put forth the effort they need to, and I won't be associated with failure if I can help it) I always make sure that people can explain what they are doing, and why they are doing it. I'm a BIG fan of unusual methods, but I make sure that my trainees can state why they are doing the crazy crap I might have them do. It is important that they understand the benefit, and that they can explain to a questioning onlooker what is going on. Imagine if every idiot in your gym said "Why are you doing that? You will hurt yourself" or whatever. It might have you doubting your progress or safety pretty quickly, right? Once doubt factors in... poof, your success stops. I wasn't asking to instate doubt, I was hoping you had answers

07-10-2008, 11:23 AM	#414 (permalink)
Andrew.cook Banned Rank: Member Experience: 10+ Years Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 353 Country: Gender:	I've heard people talk about being so specific with the timing of their rest. I'm not sold that this is a good way to make sure that all things are equal. Here is why... Some days will simply be better than others. Either due to stress or how much sleep you got or what you ate. Not all days in the gym are created equal to begin with. I would be far more tempted to simply pay attention to how you FEEL your recovery between sets is going. Some days I push things along, and some days I know that it is more important to hit the reps I'm going for than to rush things. Now, assuming you are not working with % intensity as your primary factor for determining advancement (you don't base your gains on a rise in your 1RM) then I'll assume the goal is to get more reps than last time? Perhaps a little bit of both somehow? Regardless, the only time I would worry about manipulating time is if TIME is how you are judging progress. For instance, Last weekend I did 40 flips of my 500lb tire. I gave myself 30 seconds to complete each rep, and I had decided that I would stop if I could not complete each rep in that time period. Turns out this was actually pretty easy. I was sore none the less, but completing the full set wasn't an issue. I can't go up and down in weight... the tire is what it is. Because this is almost purely metabolic conditioning for me, reducing recovery time is important. I would like to be able to reduce my flips down to something in the 5-6 second range and still knock out 40 reps. That is a long way from here, but it is a goal. Next time I do this work (about once a month, perhaps) I will drop my rest times. Maybe something like 25 seconds. In this case monitoring time is important, but in all of my other work... not so much. Why? Because I have decided that the important thing is to nail all my reps at a certain intensity. No more, no less, just get what I need to get and be done with it. If the goal was to just get one more rep (and some of my lifts use this protocol, though it is typically a bodyweight exercise) then I set a total time, and the goal is to cram more work into the same time frame. Rest isn't important. If the work is being done faster, then more rest might be needed. I'm not worried about rest times, only how many situps I can knock out in 2 minutes, or how many pullups... etc. So you may want to figure out what the measure of your success is. If it depends on you completing reps, then watching a clock isn't as important as being rested.

07-10-2008, 11:25 AM	#415 (permalink)
Andrew.cook Banned Rank: Member Experience: 10+ Years Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 353 Country: Gender:	Oh, and for what it is worth, more people blindly follow a workout with absolutely NO knowledge of why it works than... well, it is a crap ton, we will leave it there The fact that you knew one time is a step up. I just think it might be more meaningful if you heard it, understood it and could explain it back to guys on the internet like me

07-10-2008, 01:07 PM	#417 (permalink)
Andrew.cook Banned Rank: Member Experience: 10+ Years Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 353 Country: Gender:	Nah, I'm not for giving people a hard time. I am for people to be empowered and have a good grasp of the work they are doing. Most of that comes from a deep seated hatred of sucky trainers Not saying yours is... but I always kinda wonder.

07-10-2008, 02:43 PM	#419 (permalink)
Andrew.cook Banned Rank: Member Experience: 10+ Years Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 353 Country: Gender:	Ross, are those rest pause sets?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)