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Powerlifting discussion on Powerlifting Exercise Descriptions, within the Bodybuilding Forum; I was thinking for deadlift to. I know speed deads are good but theres not carry through. You're decelarating the ...


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Old 01-01-2007, 06:01 PM   #21
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I was thinking for deadlift to. I know speed deads are good but theres not carry through. You're decelarating the bar so soon but with power cleans you're gonna have to generate a LOT more power. But I experimented with an empty bar and felt like a damn fool .

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 01-01-2007, 06:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
I was thinking for deadlift to. I know speed deads are good but theres not carry through. You're decelarating the bar so soon but with power cleans you're gonna have to generate a LOT more power. But I experimented with an empty bar and felt like a damn fool .
Wait, so you're saying to do them on DE days instead of speed deadlifts? That could work.. In my journal, I was thinking about doing them as another deadlift variation for ME days since I'd want to do them heavy.. Perhaps a triple and a few singles.

Right now I alternate speed days between banded DE deadlifts and SLDL's for hypertrophy. Both have helped me tremendously. The way I look at it, there's more explosion generated from doing singles with 365 lbs PLUS bands vs. doing 225 lb cleans IMHO. It might be possible to substitute powercleans instead of SLDL's for a month here and there. That way I'd be alternating every other week between banded speed deadlifts and powercleans. In THIS case, I'd probably look to do a few sets of 5 for hypertrophy.

In my case, the only way these could benefit me is if I could rotate them into my Max Effort days with some sort of frequency. Since I haven't done them before, I'd probably get flattened if I did them only once a month!

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Old 01-01-2007, 07:06 PM   #23
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Well the cleans, I think should fall under a speed movement. You are training power not pure strength. How you should fit them in I don't pretend to know . Definitely a big learning curve involved as I can testify to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
The way I look at it, there's more explosion generated from doing singles with 365 lbs PLUS bands vs. doing 225 lb cleans IMHO. It might be possible to substitute powercleans instead of SLDL's for a month here and there. That way I'd be alternating every other week between banded speed deadlifts and powercleans. In THIS case, I'd probably look to do a few sets of 5 for hypertrophy.
Well the bands definitely change things and I don't know how to analyze all that but in terms of power output you are taking DISTANCE out of the equation. Just more weight doesn't automatically translate to more power output when you factor in the time to lockout.

However, there is such a skill component involved here. I.E. you take an experienced guy with the olympic lifts who gets a heavy power clean up in less than a second and I guarantee his actual power output is more than someone doing deads, speeds or not. So if you suck at powercleans compared to deads which of course you will at first then the power output will be more on the deads. But once you become more proficient the powercleans should come out on top in terms of wattage.

Heres the formula:

Working weight in kgs x 9.8 m/s x distance in meters

That gives you the Newton meters

Power = Newton meters/ time in seconds (gives you the power output expressed in watts).

You can divide that by bodyweight in kgs to get the watts per kilogram.

Just trying to clarify the power cunundrum. I think they could be very useful but I'm not saying I would completely replace and speed deads. Just another alternative like you said. But you do need to practice them a lot like you also mentioned, so....
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:21 PM   #24
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I think speed deadlifts would be more beneficial only because you're training your CNS with the actual lift since my goal is to speed past my sticking point about 1/3 of the way up. As for power, I'm bad at math, but I personally cannot compare pulling a heavy deadlift for a single as fast/hard as I can vs. trying to be more technical with a clean. That's pretty much all I was saying..

I just went to midwestbarbell to get an idea about this (as I usually do). I see some people doing cleans to kick off their ME Deadlift up to a certain weight albeit 225-315, then working up to a 1 RM for the conventional deadlift. This is something I'm going to try out tomorrow during my ME day since I have wide parallel as my max squat, and conventional deads as my max dead.

At least this way I can practice this lift while having it act as a perfect warmup for my deadlifting. Of course I'm not going nowhere near balls to the wall with these, but it will give me some extra volume which I find most beneficial for all around strength for me..
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0311
I think speed deadlifts would be more beneficial only because you're training your CNS with the actual lift. As for power, I'm bad at math, but I personally cannot compare pulling a heavy deadlift for a single as fast/hard as I can vs. trying to be more technical with a clean. That's pretty much all I was saying..
Oh, dude I completely and utterly agree with you. Specificity is key! I was just clarifying power and like you the cleans were just something I wanted to try!

Your plan sounds good to me. I'm gonna work some in to.
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:31 PM   #26
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^^ Yeah, I figure it's a super way to warmup with any form of deadlifting anyways. I can compare doing powercleans before heavy deadlifting to doing a few sets of speed bench with 225 before building up to a 1 RM. During DE BENCH days, when I want to hit a new 1 RM for the regular bench, I always do 3-4 sets of fast triples with 225 beforehand, which makes me a lot stronger IMO. I betcha the same thing goes for the fast cleans before deadlifts.. Essentially priming the CNS while at the same time getting in some extra hypertrophy for the supporting cast of muscles.
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:33 PM   #27
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See you know a whole lot more about this kind of training than I do I didn't really have clue one on how to use them.
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
See you know a whole lot more about this kind of training than I do I didn't really have clue one on how to use them.
LOL, yeah right!

Try it next time and you'll see. If you're planning on doing something like 3 x 5 with 315 or something, try doing your normal warmups up to 225 lbs, then KEEP that weight and do a few sets of triples as fast as you can with 45 seconds between your sets. When you're done, do a few acclimation sets of singles before starting that 315. You'll notice a HUGE difference in power.

Example:

135 x 12 (slow)
135 x 10 (fast)
185 x 8
225 x 3 x 3 (speed sets)
255 x 1
285 x 1
315 x worksets

Looks like a lot, but I usually do this for a 1 RM buildup. The first three sets only have about a minute between sets (for me), the speed sets have 45 seconds between sets, then the acclimations are also about a minute. I go pretty fast.
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:50 PM   #29
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Well I'll try that cuz I need all the help I can get since my bench is once again stuck like a.....truck, or something.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:06 PM   #30
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