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Westside for Bodybuilders (WS4BB) by Kethnaab

Powerlifting discussion on Westside for Bodybuilders (WS4BB) by Kethnaab, within the Bodybuilding Forum; this is the second article.. Westside for Bodybuilders (WS4BB) here's a "preliminary" WS4BB that I am working on. PLEASE, if ...


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Old 05-17-2006, 08:36 PM   #1
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Default Westside for Bodybuilders (WS4BB) by Kethnaab

this is the second article..

Westside for Bodybuilders (WS4BB)
here's a "preliminary" WS4BB that I am working on.

PLEASE, if you are unfamiliar with the westside training system, before you ask any questions, go to

www.elitefts.com
www.westside-barbell.com
www.ironaddicts.com

and read up on the Westside program before asking questions like "what is a concentric good morning" or "what is a box squat" or "what does ME and RE stand for".

Basically, you take the Westside template, tweek the ME day to triples instead of singles (5RM is not used here) and make some changes to focus for supplementary work. It is based on an 8-day cycle (day on, day off) but can be modified so that RE days are back-to back (i.e. M-W-F-Sa)

In the end, this looks strikingly like a basic "upper/lower heavy/light" type setup, but in it's simplest (VERY simplest) base, that's what Westside is. ME day is "heavy day" and DE day is "light" day (not exactly, but you get the point). IF you've ever seen one of the upper/lower splits I frequently recommend, this should look pretty familiar.

The sets are determined by your own workload capacity. If you need more sets or less sets, then cool, the workload that I've posted is what I have been able to do. Obviously, you would adjust this as needed to suit your own weakpoints, but this is NOT a program that is going to work for people with poor workload capacity, or weak lower backs.

There is A LOT OF LOWER BACK WORK. If your lower back is not up to this, recommend using supported rows (1-arm DB, hammer, supported T-bar, etc) or "easier rows" (cable rows) of some sort while you condition your lower back.

Here is the template, keep rest periods as short as you can on everything other than the specific ME exercises. Adjust sets as needed, drink water, take your vitamins, say your prayers, etc. etc.

Day 1 - ME Day - upper
ME press variant - 1 x 3 100% ME, 2 x 3 >90% 3RM
weighted chinup 4 x 5-6
basic press variant - 3 x 5-6
Pendlay row - 4 x 5-6
lying extensions - 2 x 10-15 (rotate angles every 2-3 weeks)
laterals - 2 x 10-15

Recommended ME press variants = CGBP, RGBP, MedGBP, Low Incline BP (rotate every 1-3 weeks)
Recommended basic press variants = any angle DB press, any ME press variant, overhead presses - use this to cover "weak spots" in upper body "push" muscles, rotate as needed

Day 3 - ME Day - lower
ME GM/pull- 1 x 3 100% ME, 2 x 3 >90% 3RM
ME Squat variant - 4 x 5
reverse hypers - 3 x 8-12
ghetto GHR - 3 x 8-12
laterals - 2 x 10-15

ME GM/pulls = concentric GM, seated GM, DL from floor, rack pull, platform pull (rotate every 1-3 weeks)
Recommended ME squat variants = front squat, ATG, SSB, sumo, heels-touching, box squats (rotate as needed to keep knees happy)

Day 5 - RE Day - upper
RE main press - 3 x 8
BTN pullup - 4 x 8-12 (no extra weight...add "pause" at top to keep rep range)
RE press variant - 3 x 8
Yates rows - 4 x 8-12 (pauses at gut)
1-arm BB curls - 2 x 10-12
laterals - 2 x 10-15

Recommended RE Main Press - flat bench (YES!! THE KING!), decl DB, incl DB, flat DB, weighted dips (rotate as needed)
RE press variant - any RE main press, any basic press variant - use to improve weak points and maintain "forward progress" in training

Day 7 - RE Day - lower
RE squat - 5 x 8
RE GM/pull - 4 x 10
reverse hypers - 3 x 8-12
ghetto GHR - 3 x 8-12
laterals - 2 x 10-15

RE squat - any ME squat variation, *20-rep squats can be used here as well, but reduce # of sets
RE GM/pull - regular GM, sumo SLDL, conventional SLDL, RDL - pick your favorite

if you decide to use chains or especially bands for the various exercises for accomodating resistance, you will almost definitely NEED to reduce sets. If you need additional triceps work, you can add chains or bands to your bar presses as well. Chains/bands during squats will maintain direct tension on the quads throughout the range of motion.

Specific adaptations to each day:

ME Day - press = The ME exercise is a press that hits all 3 of the "push" muscle groups in the upper body (pecs, front delts and tris'). Maxing (even for a triple) with the basic "pectoral bench press" can give a lot of people problems, so the exercises selected are generally pretty easy on the shoulder joint overall. WS focuses heavily on triceps strength because they use bench shirts and want to get the highest bench possible. Since the average BB will not be using a shirt, the primary supplementary exercise will be a pectoral builder (and periodically an overhead press), although CGBP is an exercise of choice and is a triceps smoker.
The "basic press variant" can be any of the ME exercises, or a DB exercise of whichever angle makes you happy. Periodically, rotate in an overhead press here for supplementary work, especially if you feel your delts need more work.
Lat work includes a close grip chinup and a wide grip row, alternated with the presses. If you are in good enough shape to perform these exercises in an alternating (or supersetting) set fashion, then more power to you.

You finish the day with the best single-joint triceps exercise in existence (Rotate angle of the bench every few weeks to keep elbows happy) for higher reps (keeps the elbows happier) and cable laterals, which are done every day for 2 sets of 10+ reps. I experimented with this, and with all the heavy pressing and pulling, direct deltoid work ends up being unnecessary, with the exception of the lateral head. The cable reduces the drain on recovery and allows for a pretty direct stimulation.

ME Day - Lower - start off with a pull or a GM, both of which are very easily adapted for a max effort triple. This also ensures that a good emphasis is given to hamstrings and posterior chain, which are weak on damn near EVERYBODY. Next up is a squat variant, pick your poison, keep your knees happy. Reverse hypers and ghetto GHR finish off the posterior chain and hammies with "lighter" higher rep work as compared to the heavy pull or GM you started off with and, of course, the cable laterals for delts.

DE Days - these are changed to "RE days", which are essentially high rep days. I include the flat BP with higher reps, lower weight on press day, which shouldn't put anybody's shoulder into a coma, but really, you modify this to suit your needs. If you want to do inclines or whatever, then go for it. I won't be offended. Lat work includes a wide grip pullup and a close grip row. 20-rep squats can be included on the DE lower body day, but I wouldn't recommend doing 5 sets of them. Hammie-specific exercise is next, then of course, reverse hypers and GHR.

Ghetto GHR are performed with heels underneath the knee-pads on the pulldown machine. Place your knees onto a movable flat bench, and using bodyweight (or weight, if you're a stud), lower yourself under control until you are parallel to the ground, then pull yourself back up. Layne Norton (aka str8flexed) has a nice video or two demonstrating this exercise. If you have a "real" GHR bench, then use that one if you like. Reverse hypers are done with the reverse hyper machine. If you don't have one, use a 45-degree hyper or a basic hyper, if that's all you have. Try to focus on your hamstrings here. Plate-heel pulls are a concentric-only exercise where you sit with your leg extended and use the heel of your foot to pull a plate toward you. Nice way to help hammies, no negative means low drain on recovery.

-------------x---------------

Anuj

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Old 05-17-2006, 10:39 PM   #2
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I like the template...Close to what I was doing with my upper/lower split in regards to hitting a 3 RM for bench and squats, then higher rep work at the end of the week. Maybe after a few blasts of DC I might give it a go. I don't know about flat benching, but maybe CGB with a slight incline cause I definately don't need another tear.. I like how he sticks with the Westside template of changing up the exercises to prevent neural burnout.

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Old 05-18-2006, 06:52 AM   #3
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I have to agree with you 0311. This looks like a nice change up from 5x5 and something I might want to try also.
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:39 PM   #4
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I was bored again tonight so I made a easy template to use for this routine. All I really had to do was change a few little things around (like putting JS Rows before weighted chins) and viola! I can tell this guy Kethnaab knows his shit pretty well..Which would be a big breath of fresh air to that place...

1. MONDAY - ME Day - upper
+ flat bench press - 1 x 3 (3 x 3 pyramid scheme)
JS rows - 4 x 5-6
++ incline dumbbell press - 3 x 5-6
weighted chinup 4 x 5-6
Skullcrushers - 2 x 10-15 (rotate angles every 2-3 weeks)
Side laterals - 2 x 10-15

2. WEDNESDAY - ME Day - lower
+ conventional deadlift - 1 x 3 (3 x 3 pyramid scheme)
++ A2G squat - 4 x 5
reverse hypers - 3 x 8-12
ghetto GHR - 3 x 8-12
side laterals - 2 x 10-15

3. FRIDAY - RE Day - upper
+ decline dumbbell - 3 x 8 *slight decline
BTN pulldown - 4 x 8-12 (bar only travels to ear level)
++ standing dumbbell press - 3 x 8
yates rows - 4 x 8-12
incline dumbbell curls - 2 x 10-12
side laterals - 2 x 10-15

4. SATURDAY - RE Day - lower
+ front squats - 4 x 8
++ SLDL - 4 x 10
reverse hypers - 3 x 8-12
ghetto GHR - 3 x 8-12
side laterals - 2 x 10-15

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. + ME Upper press variants: (Rotate every 1-3 weeks)
- Close Grip Bench Press
- Low Incline BP
- Decline Bench Press (slight)
- Reverse Grip Bench Press

++ Basic press variants:
- Standing Barbell/DB Press
- Flat/Incline/Decline Barbell Press
- Flat/Incline/Decline DB Press


2. + ME Lower pull variants: (Rotate every 1-3 weeks)
- Goodmornings (seated, standing, rack)
- Deadlifts (rack, floor, sumo, platform)

++ Basic squat variants:
- Squat (front, A2G, sumo, box, hack)



3. + RE Upper press variants: (Rotate as needed)
- Flat/Incline/Decline Barbell Press
- Flat/Incline/Decline DB Press
- Weighted Dips

++ Basic press variants:
- Standing Barbell/DB Press
- Flat/Incline/Decline Barbell Press
- Flat/Incline/Decline DB Press
- Weighted Dips



4. + RE Lower squat variants: (Rotate as needed)
- Squat (front, A2G, sumo, box, hack)
- 20 rep squats

++ Basic pull variants:
- Goodmornings (seated, standing, rack)
- Deadlifts (rack, floor, sumo, romanian, platform)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

*Deloading : Cut back on volume, frequency, or slightly easing up on your intensity (percent of RM). If you feel like your starting to “overreach” (within 3-6 weeks) it’s time for a deload. For more information on deloading, refer to the Dual Factor Sticky..

- I’d recommend eliminating a day and do an M, W, F setup or an alternate deload protocol such as doing an RE upper day on Monday, then a RE lower day of Thursday (using less volume) to maximize recovery before another blast.

Last edited by Darkhorse; 05-24-2006 at 03:37 AM..
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Old 05-23-2006, 11:06 PM   #5
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If anyone wants a vast variety of exercise selections for the program detailed above, I recommend looking through Joe DeFranco's WSB for skinny bastards: Click Here
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
There is A LOT OF LOWER BACK WORK. If your lower back is not up to this, recommend using supported rows (1-arm DB, hammer, supported T-bar, etc) or "easier rows" (cable rows) of some sort while you condition your lower back.
Well, my lower back is well "conditioned" but it is sensitive because of a previous injury. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind performing GHR's and reverse hypers on the same day twice a week. Part of a GHR is still a hyper. When you combine it with rows and deads that sure is whole lot like the man said. But I wouldn't want to do "easy rows" in order to do so many extensions.

I'd certainly like to keep the GHR's cuz I've been itching to do them anyway. But this amount of lower back punishment I think goes beyond conditioning for me into the realm of walking around bent over in pain for a couple weeks.

So what do I do? Should I skip the hypers altogether? Or substitute somehting else? Or skip the GHR and do somehing else for hammies? I'd appreciate any and all suggestions since I'm gonna run with 0311's redesign come hell or high water.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 05-24-2006, 02:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
Well, my lower back is well "conditioned" but it is sensitive because of a previous injury. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind performing GHR's and reverse hypers on the same day twice a week. Part of a GHR is still a hyper. When you combine it with rows and deads that sure is whole lot like the man said. But I wouldn't want to do "easy rows" in order to do so many extensions.

I'd certainly like to keep the GHR's cuz I've been itching to do them anyway. But this amount of lower back punishment I think goes beyond conditioning for me into the realm of walking around bent over in pain for a couple weeks.

So what do I do? Should I skip the hypers altogether? Or substitute something else? Or skip the GHR and do something else for hammies? I'd appreciate any and all suggestions since I'm gonna run with 0311's redesign come hell or high water.
You know, now that I got a chance to really look at it. There is a lot of lower back in there, SLDL, GHR and Rev. Hypers!
If you really want to do GHR, and I think everyone should if trying to lift heavy, I would NOT do Rev. Hypers to start out with. I would do one week with out and then slowly incorporate them and see how you do.

So on the second week I would do 2 sets of 8 w/o added weight on Wed. and see how you feel on Sat. If you're good to go, do 2 sets of 8 w/o weights again. From that point on just keep adding till you get where you need to be.

I have some lower back problems myself and it took awhile to get the weight up to where I felt comfortable lifting heavy. Main thing is always listen to what your body is saying. You can push a little bit but you'll know when to say when.

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Old 05-24-2006, 03:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
I have some lower back problems myself and it took awhile to get the weight up to where I felt comfortable lifting heavy. Main thing is always listen to what your body is saying. You can push a little bit but you'll know when to say when.
Thanks Dave. I've got it to where I can "lift" heavy no problem. Maybe a little hitch here and there but nothing major. As long as I don't get stupid. For instance I never do any kinds of dead off a platform. That'll screw me. Hypers are a particular problem for me though. I guess due to the nature of the injury. The problem is it's not always "I'll see how I feel" kind of thing but the difference between being fine one day and being crippled the next.

But I get some feedback while I'm doing them so I'll do what you said. Except I may just do one set of 8 and work from there. I work the hell out of my back, that is just more than I would normally do all together. Thanks for the suggestions!
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:27 PM   #9
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There's no denying that there is a lot of lower back work, but I don't think it's bad considering it's only 2 or 3 sets worth per. Reverse hypers are basically with your bodyweight to maybe a 40 lb. dumbbell between your knees.. And the ghetto GHR's are also with basically your bodyweight while keeping a stiff back.

To me, most powerlifting routines have a ton more exercises that specifically target your lower back compared to this. Westside powerlifting relies a lot on variations of good mornings, then some high rep sets of pullthroughs, hypers, ect. That's all done with a lot of weight. This routine here has more bodyweight exercises like the aforementioned..At most you'd likely build up to a 35 lb plate for ghr's. To me, that's what gives someone some nasty squatting and deadlifting strength..Low back and posterior chain work. Hence the name Westside for Bodybuilders.

I suggest you give it a go, maybe dropping a set per exercise that stress the lower back. Maybe 2 sets before moving on. You'll be surprised at how strong your back is. Another idea is to change the reverse hypers with pullthroughs since the weight is more controlled and your feet are grounded. When I was doing DFHT, after all the squatting I still had 4 sets of 10-12 pullthroughs, then at the end I did 2 x 12 hyperextensions. Looking at the outline before I did it I thought the exact same thing..But it turned out better than expected.
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:37 PM   #10
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Okay. Thanks 0311 and Dave. I think I just needed reassurance. The problem rests with the spine not the muscles so you can understand my hesitation.

But you know I don't know much about powerlifting so I certainly wasn't tying to say it's TOO much or I know better. I was just talking about my problem. Everything you said makes sense. And I've done reverse hypers with no problem. It's just the combination of everything that got me nervous. Also you know I love pull-throughs but I even have to be careful with them.

I'll do what you guys suggest. I'll keep the hypers with the GHR's. See how it goes. Change em out if need be. I'm excited to start!
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