Glutamine

[Eddie0206]

I was wondering if this supp. was worth taking. I see that is helps muscle recovery but, I was reading a label off of a glutamine supp. and it said "increses muscle size and lifting ability".

What brand should I take?

[Eric3237]

To me, it seems like the jury is still out on glutamine supplementation. I use it and am about to run out. Will I get it again?

I didn't start using it because I thought it would actually help increase lean muscle mass. I wanted to keep my immune system replenished because I have an auto-immune disorder (sarcoidosis) and I was under the impression (and still am) that it would help. I am prone to things like post training colds and such and I have noticed that when I run out of glut I seem to get more colds (not that I really get them that often). Can I say that this is for sure the case? NO, it could easily relate to other things or just be a complete coincidence.

Do I think glutamine supplementation will give you more mass? No, not at a realistic dose.

Here is some fairly convincing stuff by Layne Norton which I took off another board:

"I've written about this so many times on soo many boards. I'll posts snippets from conversations I've hard

here is where I explain what happens to orally ingested glutamine
unfortunately, not much glutamine makes it into the bloodstream from oral supplementation. When glutamine enters the small intestine and is absorbed into the mucosal cell, it is then metabolized via brush boarder enzymes to two different products. One product is alanine which is created from the alpha nitrogen on glutamine, the other product is the carbon skelaton left over with the epsilon nitrogen. This carbon skelaton is then oxidized by the gut for fuel while the ammonia group is excreted, or may enter the urea cycle. The alanine from this process is sent to the liver via the portal vein where it is used to form glucose via gluconeogenesis. It is in this way that our body prevents us from overloading ourselves with individual amino acids. The liver and mucosal cells act as a buffer to the peripheral tissues. If this buffer wasn't in place it could have dire health consequences. So to recap, you can't overload yourself with certain amino acids, b/c before ANY nutrient that is orally administered enters the blood stream, it has to pass by the liver, and since the liver regulates amino acid levels, if it "sees" that things may get out of wack it will retain these substrates for gluconeogenesis (making glucose from amino acids) which it will then pass on to the peripheral tissues.


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this was addressing people who said you need a high dose to get anything from it.

"just real quickly... all of you that are saying... "well they need to use more glutamine"... well that's all well and good... OF COURSE IT WILLHAVE AN ANABOLIC EFFECT WHEN YOU GIVE IT IN A 40G DOSE! It does have nitrogen and though glutamine doesn't stimulate protein synthesis it can donate it's nitrogens and they can be recycled and eventually end up in other amnio acids... as well as glutamine may spare the oxidation of other amino acids... HOWEVER, this is nothing that you wouldn't also get from a corresponding increase in protein intake by 40g.

Many people will say, "well I didn't see results until I upped my glutamine to 30-40g per day" well what most likely happened was one of 2 things
1) they increased their total nitrogen intake to a more beneficial level and saw benefits from it

2) they increased their total calories by 120-160 calories... and gained some weight

We need to look at this and think critically... a corresponding amount of increase in protein intake with an equal amount of nitrogen will do the same thing. "

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You will not find one well designed study showing that glutamine has an impact on muscle gain/retention in healthy, weight trained individuals. All the studies out there that show benefits to glutamine have the following problems with them.

1) they use glutamine adminstered intraveneously, this bypasses the gut and liver extraction.

2) the studies are done in burned, diseased, or surgical patients. Contrary to what supplement companies would like you to believe, this does NOT relate the physiological state of a trained athlete.

3) the studies are done using glutamine vs. placebo. Of course glutamine will be superior to no calories whatsoever in maintaining muscle mass... that's kind of "duh." Of these studies out there supporting glutamine use in athletes (of which there are few), none of them that I know of have examined glutamine supplementation in people consuming the same amounts of total nitrogen. It's just placebo vs. glutamine, which is terrible experimental design.

Additionally, many people often cite the fact that there is a release of glutamine from muscle cells during workout... so since there is a release, you must be losing glutamine from the muscle and this must be catabolic. Not the case. Intracellular levels of muscular glutamine remain unchanged during exercise... how you ask? The glutamine released is formed in the muscle from the metabolism of BCAAs. BCAAs are transamminated to their keto acids and the ammonia from this reaction is transferred to alpha ketoglutarate to form glutamine. This glutamine is then released from the muscle, not stored glutamine. This glutamine travels to the liver/small intestine which is the main fuel for the small intestine. In return the small intestine releases BCAAs which travel to the muscle. So the small intestine gets what it needs and the skeletal muscle gets what it needs. So if anything, supplements with BCAAs... not glutamine.

Why have you never heard any of this before??? Because glutamine is a cash cow of the industry, you will never see people questioning it's effectiveness in any of the mainstream muscle mags or by any of the pro bodybuilders. Why? Because the supplement companies pay for the advertisements that keep these magazines in business... do you think they would put a glutamine ad in a magazine with a big anti-glutamine article???? Heck no. It wouldn't be good for the magazine either in the long run. So for the most part it is kept hush-hush.

Now after all these things i've said, people who have digestion problems with their small intestine, such as those with Celiac's disease, Crohn's, etc, would definately benefit from glutamine usage.

Notice the last part I highlighted in red. If you recall, way back when when you first mentioned Celiac, I recommended glutamine to you for this reason.


Hope this helps.

[Eric3237]

He came, he...saw?....he.....ignored?

[slayer of souls]

That is a great post thanks for bringing it up. It summarizes every key point which have been presented in recent studies.


Here are some references to support Layne’s claims.
http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=24855&hl

[Eric3237]

Originally Posted by Slayer

That is a great post thanks for bringing it up. It summarizes every key point which have been presented in recent studies.

Thanks.

Yes. It's not the first thing I've read that sums up a lot of the recent studies, though. The difference is he seems to actually understand the relative value, or lack of value in this case, of said studies.

I've read a good deal of the studies he's talking about. I think he's right on the money....but, as they always say....more studies are needed and better ones specific to bodybuilding individuals. Not endurance athletes people, burn victins, HIV sufferers, or otherwise chronically ill patient populations, which is what most of the studies are on.

As for me, I think I will discontinue glutamine for now.

[Eddie0206]

No I see it, thanks for the help

[Dr X]

I've read all the studies and have him hawed back and forth on this issue as well. Not to mention the is it better when dieting or bulking. Then I came up with a brilliant idea. The shit is cheap if you look in the right place to use it anyway.

[Eric3237]

Originally Posted by Dr x

I've read all the studies and have him hawed back and forth on this issue as well. Not to mention the is it better when dieting or bulking. Then I came up with a brilliant idea. The shit is cheap if you look in the right place to use it anyway.

You're right. I have been going back and forth as well. But I've been getting it pretty cheap so....what to do, what to do?

Shit, you talked me into it.

[pu12en12g]

Although it's certainly cheap (around $20 for 1000g) I generally don't recommend it. If you do choose to use it I would use 15g to 30g postworkout.

I think EAA / BCAA or even Bulk Leucine powder is a much wiser choice.

[Eric3237]

Originally Posted by pu12en12Gg

BCAA or even Bulk Leucine powder is a much wiser choice.

I generally agree. However I'm taken aback when I hear people recommend Leucine alone as despite the relative importance of leucine over the other BCAA's, everything I have read indicates that the BCAA's should be maintained in a balance.