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0311 ph/ps sticky

Supplements discussion on 0311 ph/ps sticky, within the Bodybuilding Forum; There seems to be a lot of people who dont understand ph/ps and how to safely and effectively use them. ...


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Old 04-24-2006, 11:59 AM   #1
hrdgain81
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Default 0311 ph/ps sticky

There seems to be a lot of people who dont understand ph/ps and how to safely and effectively use them. If If I put together a FAQ page can we make it a sticky?


I'd like to start it off by getting everyone's input, then organizing and condensing it. I think it would help out alot of people around here.

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Old 04-24-2006, 12:30 PM   #2
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Sounds like a great idea Hrdgain.

If you put one together either 0311 or myself will sticky it for everyone.
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:45 AM   #3
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Ok here it is. If you have input please provide it and I will consider changes. Sorry it took so dam long. I'm sure there is plenty more to add, and you can all make fun of me for being so long winded.
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:45 AM   #4
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Ph/Ps Tutorial

What are Pro Hormones and Pro Steroids?

Pro Hormones (ph’s) are compounds that your body can readily convert into anabolic/androgenic hormones. Once they are converted they have the same or similar effects on the body as Anabolic Androgenic Steroids.

Pro Steroids (ps’s) are compounds that are similar in chemical make up to anabolic androgenic steroids. These compounds’ chemical formula has been tweaked in order to allow for their legal sale.

Both ph’s and ps’s are derived from what some would call traditional steroids and thus should be treated as such.

Am I ready for a Ph/Ps cycle?

There are many factors to consider when looking into using these compounds, first and foremost is age.

Using ph/ps before you are 21 years of age can adversely affect your health. I don’t want to get technical here, so I will layout guidelines for ph/ps use.

- user should be over 21 years old
- user should have 3 to 5 years minimum serious training
- user should have made significant gains naturally in those 3 to 5 years
- user should have a solid understanding of his/her goals
- user should have a solid understanding of diet and training
- user should have a solid understanding of the potential effects of ph/ps
- user should have a solid understanding of how to safely administer ph/ps and pct
- user should have a solid understanding of their personal health situation, and how that will be affected by using these substances

Types of ph/ps

Just as there are many types of steroids there are many types of ph/ps. These compounds differ in many ways, and thus their uses differ also. Some provide a large anabolic effect, supporting great increases in size and strength. Others have what is described as a “hardening” effect where the muscles may become denser, while still others can be used to maintain muscle mass while in an extended caloric deficit.

In the world of ph/ps’s the products are constantly changing. The FDA has banned many substances from the market place, and this has pressured supplement companies to become adaptive. With each passing day new ph/ps are being formulated and introduced. You must research what particular ph/ps are fit for your goals, and make an educated decision as to what you think is best for your particular case.



Types of Administration

There are several ways to administer these compounds into the body. Each has its own particular benefits and pitfalls.

- ORAL, your most common ph/ps is an oral administration. These are simply caps, or pressed pills that are swallowed. The largest benefits to these are their ease of use. They can be carried any were and taken at anytime. However, many oral compounds have very limited bioavailability, meaning much of the compound is lost to the purification process of the stomach and liver. To over come this some ph/ps are Methylated (see definitions at the bottom).
- TRANSDERMAL, for this administration the compound is mixed into a solution in order to allow it to pass through the skin. The benefits to this administration include decreased dosing (usually 2x daily), less of the compound is used due to superior bioavailability over oral. The down side is some compounds will cause skin irritation, the chance of inadvertently transferring the compound to another is increased, and the smell can be a turn off to some.
- SUBLINGUAL, uses a specialized liquid that is designed to be absorbed through the mouth. This liquid is held under the tongue until it dissipates. The benefits include increased bioavailability over oral, no smell or transferal issues like transdermal. But you are limited to the amount of compound that can be absorbed in a single dose. Meaning up to 5 doses may need to be administered in a day.
- INTRANASAL, uses a very similar transport mechanism as sublingual. The benefits and pitfalls are pretty much the same. However, the dosage for intranasal are even more limited, and would facilitate dosing every 90 to 120 minutes, making it an unrealistic option in my opinion.

Cycling and Stacking

Ph/Ps cycle lengths are dependent a few factors. First is toxicity level of the compound. This is mainly attributed to its administration form, and how it will affect your body. Methlyated compounds are very toxic, and for the most part should be kept to short cycle lengths. For example M1T or methyl one test is perhaps the most liver toxic substance out there, and should be kept to 2-3 week cycles. Second are side effects, some ph/ps substances can cause sever side effects. Again M1T is a good example, it causes back cramps, lethargy, and in some cases depression. There is extensive knowledge on the web about these compounds; you must research to find out what will be an appropriate cycle length.

Stacking is putting more then one compound into use at the same time. If it is your first time using a particular compound, I would suggest running it stand alone. It will be dam near impossible to know exactly how a compound reacts in the body if you’ve only ever used it with something else. For me, I use the scientific method for stacking. Use one compound, and then if I feel its necessary, on my next cycle I will stack it. There are however exceptions to this rule. Some compounds should be stacked, and they are usually well documented as well. For instance, the 1test and 4ad transdermal stack has a long history of user feedback, and has very legitimate reasons to be stack right off the bat. One test has a side effect of lethargy, 4ad can give an energy boost and so on. Again research is the key.
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:46 AM   #5
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PCT and Cycle timing:

PCT or Post Cycle therapy is a means to bring your natural test production back after a cycle. When you introduce manufactured hormones into the body, your body systematically becomes dependent on them, shutting down production in the testis. For this reason certain products need to be used to correct this shut down. Now some PCT products are not legal as over the counter aids. Unfortunately those are also the same products that many say are the most effect, they include Nolvaldex (Tamoxifen Citrate), and Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate). Over the counter products such as Rebound xt (ATD) and 6oxo can also be used. The later work to jump start test production through estrogen suppression. PCT dosages and protocols differ from cycle to cycle … do your research.

Cycle timing and layouts should be planned well in advance, this includes your training and diet. Many people advocate this equation for a ph/ps cycle

Time on = PCT = Time off

Or a six week cycle, needs a six week pct, then at least six weeks off before the next cycle. To me this is not always accurate. You must also consider the amount of growth during the cycle to make a determination. For example, a 2 week m1t cycle could yield a 12lb gain, and possibly 6-8lbs lean mass kept after pct. There is no reason in the world you should be doing another m1t cycle after two weeks off from pct. You have to remember that while your muscle may grow at an accelerated rate, your ligaments, tendons, and joints will not keep up. You must also remember that the side effects from a cycle could outlast even the time off period. I’ve seen records of those doing Superdrol cycles that had insane liver values months after their cycle. My personal number is 2 per year at most, no matter what the substance or cycle length is.

Side Effect Protection:

As previously mentioned the side effects of these substances can be quite pronounced. It is important to take steps to protect yourself from any dangerous side effects of these compounds. Here is a listing of the most common side effects I’ve encountered and steps to counter act them.

Blood pressure increase: Hawthorne berry extract
Liver toxicity: Nac, Milk thistle (many companies make liver support supps)
Joint soreness: Celedrin, MSM, Gloucosomine and Condroiten, Cissus (my favorite)
Cholesterol/Lipid profile: Sesamin, lipid FX
Lethargy: Low GI carbs, stimulants (careful with these on cycle), ect
Aggressiveness: Hit the dam weights harder, or samE if it gets really bad
Cramping: Taurine, Potassium, water
Libido decrease: LH boosters, tribulus, long jack

Definitions:

Anabolic – producing a state of protein synthesis, the process by which muscle is built and maintained.

Androgenic – possessing male sexual traits, ie hair growth, deepened voice, muscular formation.

Methylated – when a methyl group is added to a compound it is said to be methylated. This methyl group allows the compound greater bioavailability by stopping the break down on the first pace through the liver.
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:47 AM   #6
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I will clean it up, and add color (0311 style) once we have a final version. Till then lets see what everyone has to say.
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Old 04-29-2006, 03:17 PM   #7
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I think this is an excellent write up and I know that there is definately a need for this type of documentation as there is alot of confusion about PH/PS, especially for beginners.

I will see if I can find anything to add to this but I admit that I'm not that knowledgable in this area either. Once the final version is up let me know and we can sticky it.

Awesome work bud.
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