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Nathan1 · #11 01-02-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric3237

Have you ever seen any independant information on dessicated liver other than what you get from supplement company?

However, to say that something has a lot of nutrients is one thing. To come close to if not outright comparing it to steroids (Beverly) and implying that it is the one thing standing in your way for great results is another. There are lots of foods packed with nutrients that are touted "superfoods".

To say that they have a lot of protein for weight is true. To imply that it is a surperior source based on the REAL information we have about protein and the amino acid needs of adults building muscles is hype. We don't even know the exact ratios of aminos or what the "perfect" protein is for this population. It's based on what infants need and that is a stretch at best. But given that most all of the common protein foods provide much more than enough of all the aminos including the essentials. To say that one protein source is superior to another, which is said about liver, is simply groundless. A little more of this or that just doesn't matter that much in the context of a high protein diet.

They also mention rna/dna and imply that this provides some other benefit. It's just protein. It will be broken down and assimilated as such and will not be delivered to the blood like some magic bullet to assist in proper protein utilization. Just more supplement nonsense.

Enzymes? Same thing. I saw it written up about the amazing discovery of enzyme P-450. Implying that dessicated liver was rich in this detoxification enzyme so eating it was the only way to detoxify stuff such as hormones in beef. At the end it said "it was tested on children and so it is confirmed." This is really close to what I like to call "lying". P-450 is an enzyme pigment which is a part of the detoxification pathway in the liver. OUR liver, cow's liver, whatever. It's even found in bacteria. The article makes it sound like some scientist was testing dessicated liver supplement in the lab. Discovered this miraculouse enzyme in it then gave it to children for some reason and "confirmed" it's effectiveness. LOL. Of course the guy was just studying the P-450 in the lab trying to learn about it. It's a BIG protein. You eat a big protein enzyme and it gets digested. Doesn't detoxify anything. End of story.

A treatment for liver disease? First of all, it is liver extracts like liver hydrosolate that has been used, not ground up liver. Liver is no-doubt helpful to treat anemia but I guatantee you that if someone had severe anemia the doctor would prescribe a strong iron supplement and associated nutritional support, not live tabs. But there has been no real benefit associated with liver extracts or any other type of liver in hepatitas. To say that something has been associated with treating an illness while touting a supplement does not mean it actually did anything. Of course there are no references given to support this statement. They are counting on people just reading it and assuming it’s validity.

I could go on and on. BUT I am not saying that as a simple nutritional supplement it wouldn’t be useful. I wouldn’t use it as a protein supplement because of it’s cost effectiveness. But it would be good for micronutrient support and you’d get some protein. But sup companies don’t say “here’s a good nutritional support supplement and here’s why”. Of course not. They use clever gimmicks to make it sound like it’s your ticket to bodybuilding success. These are the “magical” properties I was speaking of and what I warn against.

I'm curious as to what supplements, price not considered, would you recommend to anyone....

EricT · #12 01-03-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

I'm curious as to what supplements, price not considered, would you recommend to anyone....

LOL, perhaps I should ask you what sups you wouldn't recommend

. But that would be silly, I don't know you well enough to make any judgements. Likewise you just got here and your making assumptions based on a few posts.

I've been here a while and have recommended plenty of supplements. Just because I disagree with your characterisation of a sup or two doesn't mean that I'm anti sup. Nathan, no offense, but you seem to be defensive about sups you take or may have taken Or the way you use those sups. You got a rebuttal, post one, dude

.

It's just that I don't base my research on supplement blurbs. I also don't pretend that one tiny detail, a supplement, is the line between success and failure. That is what many people are looking for, a tiny detail that will make them turn the corner and that is what they think they find with every other thing posted on the internet.

You get guys that are not really having much success and are stuck in a rut of changing goals and spinning their wheels. What they need to do is examine the BIG PICTURE, and start from there. I think you would agree to that. But instead they look for that one little sup that's gonna make the difference and they are ready to believe any line of bs they are fed.

So it's this one kind of whey or this particular creatine. But muscle is not born in a lab. With that said, I have nothing in particular against liver tabs. It's a cheap source of nutrients. But so is food. So call it concentrated food. Whatever, I don't care.

How many absolute beginners do we have that come on this forum and the FIRST place they post is the supplement forum? TOO MANY.

But anyway, if you saw my supplement cabinet you would not have asked that question....to which I owe you no answer. I recommend the basics to people once diet and program are firmly in place. Protein (whey, etc). Creatine. And I have other favorites for particular uses. My posting history is here for everyone to see. However I spend most of my time in training forum.

BTW, I'm jsut answering you question the way I see fit. If any of this comes off as annoyance or ire, it's not. It's all cool. Sups aren't something that ignite my inner fire

...any more than a hammer or wrench. What does get to me is desperate people being duped by sup hype.

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Desiccated Liver???