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looks like a good read. I've been meaning to read up on this but have been way too busy.

On whey isolates.

For someone on an ultra-high protein I don't think an isolate vs. a regular whey protein "mix" will make much difference except maybe post workout. I would point out that (despite what the below article states) it is not correct to say that an isolate digests "better" or "easier". It could be absorbed faster, that's all. Except for pre or post workout, where it may be an advantage, in the end it comes down to a higher protein percentage. However, as I have been saying, in many cases there is a big downside to this because of the way these types of processing alter the whey. With isolates one could easily be replacing a high quality protein with something that a bodybuilder normally would be calling a low quality protein if they knew the facts -- and paying more for it!

Here is a little something more on this, which I think SHOULD be considered if you are going to spent extra money on an isolate.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

lately i've been getting my protein from the proteinfactory.com. they let you customize mixes as well so you can get exactly what you want.

before that i was using some really high quality whey (anarchy protein) from www.chemicalanarchy.com. the stuff was great, but with no flavor i could no longer stand the taste of it after i hit ~50lb mark...

Damn, I was going to hit up my favorite supplement store by my house that hooks me up with online prices.. They have isopure (3 lbs.) for $34, but after comparing the difference in profiles per scoop, IMO it's a big difference if it lives up to label claims. I'd pay the same price for an extra pound of TP's ion exchange...($34 for 4 lbs vs. 3)

2 scoops of Isopure Contains:

Protein: 50 grams
isoleucine: 2.7 grams
leucine: 6.8 grams
valine: 5.5 grams


True Protein Ion Exchange: 2 scoops

Protein: 56 grams
Isoleucine: 16.4 grams
Leucine: 23 grams
Valine: 13.8 grams

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I completely agree with your points Eric. The Ion-Exchange I'm getting is strictly 2 scoops preworkout, another 2 postworkout.. That's a good way to view it to keep money in your wallet. I only have to cover 4 scoops 12 times a month (three workouts per week). The rest of the time I'm sticking with ON's 100% whey. If I want slower digestion, I'll just mix the 100% whey with either milk, olive oil, or even fiber.

Quote:

So that means 56 grams protein a scoop and 53.2 grams BCAA's per scoop?

Um, wouldn't still be cheaper just to get bulk BCAA's? Either this is a mistake or there's hardly any OTHER aminos. But I think it's a mistake, since I don't think that's actually possilbe!

OK,

True Protein Ion Exchange
Per 100 grams
Leucine = 11.5 grams
Isoleucine = 8.2 grams
Valine = 6.9 grams


Isopure
Per 100 grams
Leucine = 13.6 grams
Isoleucine = 5.4 grams
Valine = 11 grams


I'm not praising one brand over another, just trying to get to the bottom of it. If it is just about BCAA's then it all doesn't make a huge difference. Isopure has more leucine (and valine) but the numbers for Isopure were rounded up so it has only a few grams more total BCAA's. In any case, in terms of BCAA's, I'd say go with the cheapest. Disregarding price, in decent brands, I think the BCAA content is all going to "even out in the wash" for the most point.

However, Isopure is enriched with L-Glutamine, if that makes a difference, since the Ion-Exchanged are only going to have gutamic acid any other way. As far as I know it also contains a bunch of minerals (including trace minerals). This may not be desirable for a post workout....

Here is the BCAA profile for my regular whey for a comparison, which, imo, is a pretty typical product:

Per 100 grams
Leucine = 8 grams
Isoleucine = 4.5 grams
Valine = 3.4 grams

P.S. I see what happened now. Those numbers for true protein were the grams of BCAA's in 100 grams X 2 instead of divided by 2.

good info on the protein....

OOPS! I screwed up. Those numbers I gave for Isopure are wrong. Here we go again:

True Protein Ion Exchange
Per 100 grams
Leucine = 11.5
Isoleucine = 8.2
Valine = 6.9


Isopure
Per 100 grams
Leucine = 10.8
Isoleucine = 4.3
Valine = 8.7

Duh. I was going by grams per SERVING (62). Wrong! It's because Isopure has all that stuff added inot the product I looked at.

As I said before, though, if I buy an isolate for pre/post workout I will go with a filtered. Whether it be cold filtered or whatever. The difference in percentages is not enough to be worth the extra cost to me especially considering the amount of protein likely to be denatured in the Ion-Exchanged or Hydrolized products vs. the filtered product being much less denatured. More pure is not always better. The absorption times can hardly be calculated to make a difference even when we're talking Hydrolyzed and its peptides once you factor in the difference in quality. To me, many of these product are about simply being "the most protein per serving". But how much of that protein is left in a decent state?

I've noticed many of the isolate manufacturers saying how their's is only the highest quality whey by virtue of its being an isolate. Ridiculous. The amount of protein per serving has nothing to do with the "quality" of that protein. That's like saying that a soy isolate protein supp is better than the protein found in a soybean. My main point being that everyone should consider what they are actually getting for their extra bucks.

BTW, if you don't know what I mean by denatured

To cause the tertiary structure of (a protein) to unfold, as with heat, alkali, or acid, so that some of its original properties, especially its biological activity, are diminished or eliminated.

Good idea. For any other time besides pre and post (and for pre you don't want too fast an absorption depending on how long before your workout) the slower the better. This is why I tell people it's a mistake to use isolates as their main whey. There are many different opinions on advantages and disadvantages, but in general, your body regulates blood amino acid levels and the quicker aminos enter the bloodstream the faster they are catabolised or "oxidised". This is why in studys, whey has been found to result in a negative net leucine balance.

This is one big reason why we are told to eat a SOLID meal 45 minutes to an hour after the post shake. If you don't, that temporary anabolic condition you've made could backfire on you and turn into a catabolic one. But since you were probably not in a fasted state to begin with even this is not guaranteed by one study.

You can read all sorts of different info on this but let me be clear on my opinion. Other than when you want fast absorption for a reason, the only real and known advantage of whey is simply convenience for pumping up your protein levels. Faster absorbing is NOT an advantage in general "eating" whether it be whey or anything else. I'm not saying it is really a disadvantage either since most bodybuilders are eating so often and aminos are probably entering the blood stream in a slow tricle all day. But when manufactures tout fast absorption as being "anabolic" they are getting over on you.
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