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The perfect PWo protein guide

Supplements discussion on The perfect PWo protein guide, within the Bodybuilding Forum; The Perfect Post Workout Protein Protocol Its common knowledge that PWO protein intake combined with high glycemic carbohydrates drastically increases ...


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Old 08-28-2006, 02:44 PM   #1
TheGame46
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Default The perfect PWo protein guide

The Perfect Post Workout Protein Protocol
Its common knowledge that PWO protein intake combined with high glycemic carbohydrates drastically increases recovery and muscle gain. But with all the products out there itís hard to know if you really getting the most you can out of your PWO nutrition. To get the most out of it, Iím going to explain some general concepts.

Advantages Of Whey Protein:

* Helps boost immune system.
* Whey will absorb 80-90% and isolate will absorb about 90-99% and mixes can offer 100%.
* Enhances muscle recovery after workouts and helps prevent muscle breakdown.
* Best source of amino acids next to cooked eggs.
* Absorbs very quickly in the body.
* Inexpensive to produce.
* Easy to flavor.
* Has a long shelf life.
* Can be prepared several ways and mixes easily with water.

Whey comes in several forms: concentrate, isolate, and hydrolyzed whey.
The most common and least effective form is whey concentrate which has an absorption rate of at best 80-85%. And OK bioavailability

The next best thing is whey isolate which can absorb up into the 90-99% ranges and better bioavailability.

The best protein out there i hydrolyzed whey protein. This is essentially the why protein after it has been predigested by enzymes breaking into really small fragments. These small fragments are much easier for the body to absorb and use as building blocks then the larger proteins. Hydrolyzed whey can be found in small amounts in a lot of formulas out there but its important to see what the average size of the proteins are the smaller the better, but usually the more expensive.

Why is hydro whey so great?
Your body very rarely actually uses large proteins. The body is constructing different proteins using the protein you digest as building blocks. The protein we eat is usually in the form of large peptides and proteins that were previously constructed by the organism they came from. So our body instead of looking for a place where we need that exact protein digest and breaks down the protein into small pieces which it can use to make its own bigger proteins. The best forms of hydrolyzed whey are broken down into pieces as small as 3-5 amino acids long. So basically imagine trying to construct a building with legos. Hydro whey is like getting stacks of 3 legos together that you can use to from walls etc. for your building. Regular protein would be like trying to build a lego building with a pre-constructed lego car. You have to take it apart before you can actually add to your building.

So hydro is not only absorbed faster b/c it is smaller, but it is actually able to be used by your body much faster and easier and more completely than sources of full length proteins.

So what is the best post workout nutrition method?
Research has shown that protein in combination with high glycemic carbohydrates after exercise in a 2:1 ratio is extremely beneficial. The reason that carbohydrates are need are mainly for digestion of those of those proteins when your body is already starved of carbohydrates from the workout. During your workout your body releases glucose from the stores in the muscles, and when the workout is over the body increases insulin very easily in response to food intake b/c it wants to replenish those levels of glucose in the muscle. This is one reason why you need lots of carbs with your protein b/c most of the carbs are beings stored and used to recover your energy from the workout and remove lactic acid etc.

By using hydro whey there is less of a carbohydrate demand for protein absorption and construction. There are some supplement companies that fail to realize this and pack 4 times the carbohydrates with hydro whey. This is just extra carbs to be stored as fat.
When you take a whey concentrate or isolate those carbs are used to digest the protein.

So here is what IMO would provide the best post workout benefit.
Immediately following workout.
15-20g hydro whey with 20-30g of dextrose
15-20 minutes after the workout
20-40g whey isolate/concentrate combo mixed with milk with or followed by a low fat med to low glycemic carb meal. Fruit it a great choice here. To have with your shake. And apple or banana works great. Especially if you do vanilla shakes and blend the banana in.

This gives you the quickest protein available to your muscles, and still utilizes larger slower digest protein to keep the anabolic environment while utilizes the carbohydrates ingested to limit any fat gain.

By TheGame46
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Old 08-28-2006, 05:28 PM   #2
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Good post.....saw this over at promuscle as well
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:45 AM   #3
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Has anyone ever tried hydrolysed whey? I have 5lbs of it sitting in my basement and it is the most god awful thing you will put in your mouth. You can't mask the flavor, it is good but not worth it IMO.

PWO shake within 15 minutes of workout = 40g whey isolate + 60g dextrose.

Within 1 hr PWO full meal low in saturated fats 40+grams protein with complex carbs.

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Old 08-30-2006, 10:08 AM   #4
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Whey protein hydrosolate tastes crappy, is way too expensive, and is heavily denatured. The "studies" mentioned were done on rats and patients with cancer and crohn's disease. To my knowledge there are no studies demonstrating any of this in healthy athletes or weight trainers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L. Macdonald
the study often cited by advertisers to demonstrate the 'superiority' of whey protein hydrosylate measured nitrogen balance in rats after three days of starvation, which corresponds to a longer period in humans (10). In this study, whey protein hydrosylate led to better nitrogen retention and growth than the other proteins studied. What is not mentioned is that starvation affects how well the body will store incoming protein, leading to falsely elevated BV measures.
There is supposedly an "enzymatic" process that doesn't denature the protein as much and is more cost effective then the older methods but none of the other assertions have any real grounding. When compared to isolates in general we are talking about percentage differences that would likely be completely negligible in healthy persons, especially if that person weren't "starved" to begin with.

People are nitpicking this stuff way too much. If your are chronically undereating and are not taking in enough protein then these small differences, if they exist" might make a difference to you. But someone on a "bodybuilding diet" SHOULD have a positive nitrogen balance to begin with. If anyone thinks that spending a huge amount of money on the whey supplement they use for post workout will make or break them, then they need to seriously re-examine their dietary practices. And isolate may be better than a concentrate or traditional mix, especially in terms of comfort but to state that hydrosolates are superior just has no proof that I have seen.

Finafreak I agree. Your pwo is fine. Use plenty of water and you may want to use a 50/50 malt/dextrose mix. OR use a way maize product.

Last edited by EricT; 08-30-2006 at 02:35 PM..

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame46
So what is the best post workout nutrition method?
Research has shown that protein in combination with high glycemic carbohydrates after exercise in a 2:1 ratio is extremely beneficial. The reason that carbohydrates are need are mainly for digestion of those of those proteins when your body is already starved of carbohydrates from the workout. During your workout your body releases glucose from the stores in the muscles, and when the workout is over the body increases insulin very easily in response to food intake b/c it wants to replenish those levels of glucose in the muscle. This is one reason why you need lots of carbs with your protein b/c most of the carbs are beings stored and used to recover your energy from the workout and remove lactic acid etc.
This whole paragraph makes no sense to me.

Quote:
So hydro is not only absorbed faster b/c it is smaller, but it is actually able to be used by your body much faster and easier and more completely than sources of full length proteins.
That is unmitigated bullshit. Faster? Maybe a little. More completely? Hype. Should be stricken from the record.

Last edited by EricT; 10-02-2006 at 03:02 PM..
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