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Supplements discussion on X Factor, within the Bodybuilding Forum; "Thank God I'm the man of steel or else I'd be in for it! 50 days doesn't sound like a ...


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Old 12-08-2005, 08:28 PM   #11
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"Thank God I'm the man of steel or else I'd be in for it! 50 days doesn't sound like a lot of time to develop cancer or tumors."

Dear Man of Steel,

The average cell turns over pretty slowly. Your DNA does not turnover at all. Therefore, when you fiddle with the controls, who knows when, in your future - or your children's future, since they're going to get an exact copy of your gamete DNA - the effects of this compound will manifest?

Some of your cells never turnover, like your cerebral cortex. Some turn over more quickly, like your liver, whose cells average between 300-500 days, whereas the stomach lining cycles very quickly, every few days, dermal cells every two weeks, and your red blood cells about 120 days.

When they do turnover, you might mentally hold your breath...because one of the actions of this compound is mitotic rate in certain tissues.

So AA binds to a regulatory region, and that regulatory factor....shifts in activity. Nobody can be sure just how it does, but if you're dosing for 50 days, chances are, bunch of cells are going to get that same signal.

So many pathways, so many actions...so little real data on the effects.

It's a Pandora's box of molecular action.

http://www.supercentenarian.com/archive/cells.html

If you read this article, you'll begin to understand this statement:

"Cell turnover in the human body does not adhere to a linear timescale."

Fifty days, 0311, may be just enough....I can't catalog all the reactions that might take place during that ingestion time, of course. Add a couple more weeks for clearance of the membrane soluble fraction. There isn't enough known about this compound to list all of the effects, overt and subtle control shifts....yet.

As to milk thistle dosing: 300 mg, 3x/day for an average bodymass of 185 lbs. Thats for a standardized extract of 70-80% silymarins. Format that has shown to be most readily absorbed is the silmarin extract bound to phosphatidylcholine. In the extract capsule form or bound form, take 30 min before meals for maximum absorption.

For this herb to be effective, you need to begin dosing about two weeks before you start taking that x-factor.

About that smoking. Good thing those highly insoluble coaltars eventually clear out of lung tissue...in a decade or so, depending on the loading rate, whether you used filtered or unfiltered, and the duration of your habit. Been a decade since your time in the Service?

Not trying to be a smart-ass here. As Eric pointed out, I'ved tried to be mild-mannered (clark kentish, even) in my reply.

I like you. I rather not see you taking risks, but if you must, do it as though you're handling a box of live ammunition.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:50 PM   #12
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"Thank God I'm the man of steel or else I'd be in for it! 50 days doesn't sound like a lot of time to develop cancer or tumors."

Dear Man of Steel,
A little humor never hurt anybody. I mean no offense!!

Trust me Trouble, I'm following your recommendations very closely. I was just asking if 50 days is going to kill me or not?

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Old 12-08-2005, 09:02 PM   #13
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Been a decade since your time in the Service?
Got out of Iraq/service summer of 2003. Not that long!

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As to milk thistle dosing: 300 mg, 3x/day for an average bodymass of 185 lbs.
So we're talking a lot of coin then!

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Not trying to be a smart-ass here.
I don't hardly ever post at Bulk where I know you usually frequent, so I understand that you'd think I'm being sarcastic when in fact I'm usually making light of apparently dire situations! Damn, tough crowd tonight!

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do it as though you're handling a box of live ammunition.
Will now, thanks!

BTW, what do you do for work? I forgot when researching this over at Bulk.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:31 PM   #14
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Trust me, 0311, it was I who was trying not to offend by appearing to be rabidly against this product.

My working motto is: "two sides to every coin".

I have posted on the BN forum that there are some remarkable reports in the medical research lit on the various actions of archidonic acid.

But I am quite likely the only one on these forums who has followed most of the history of prostanoid pathway biochemistry and molecular biology - mostly from a distance by reading journals, but also sitting in on live research presentations given by key cyclooxygenase investigators over the years (that would be about two decades). I had the pleasure of knowing one and partying and sitting thru their painful group seminars, at Vanderbilt U a while ago...

I will tell you that the majority of publications on the cyclooxygenase pathway are directed at controlling the effects of the metabolites and understanding the their many actions within the body under disease conditions. They are the basis for substantial R&D expenditure, yearly, by many drug companies throughout the world in the design of agents to block their action as inflammatory factors and more recently, as gene regulatory factors implicated in several common types of cancers (colon, prostate and uterine).

This is the first time I have seen the precursor, arachidonic acid, used as a basic supplement (x-factor).

I need you to know that I am trying my best, despite by exposure history to this body of literature, to provide you a relatively unbiased opinion on this compound's efficacy for the stated purpose (body compositional changes, vascularization).
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:54 PM   #15
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So you've been an ex-smoker for a relatively short period of time. Most smokers start young, so you may been puffing for more than a decade. We, ahh, won't poke into your private life further. Simply be advised that these coaltars themselves may play a role in gene regulation and cell turnover.

Per the milk thistle: I use vitaminshoppe.com's version, 70 mg, 80% silymarins, 300 caps, 21 bucks (you can watch for coupons specials).

I quoted you the highest dosage, assuming that you'd want maximum protection. You can use lesser, 2 caps, 3x day, which should be sufficient for 50 days. I would purchase a smaller bottle of milk thistle from Wally World (which is also standardized to 80% silymarins, I believe its 120 mg whole extract) to get you started.

What I do isn't the question, its what are my credentials.

PhD, 25+ yrs research in protein biochemistry, cell and molecular biology, environmental microbial ecology/toxicology. Quite a few professional pubs, work in liver and adrenal biochem, worked in a lab that pioneered much of the common knowledge of SR biochemistry in skeletal muscle cell..thank god I had finished with purified mito proteins and worked mostly with bacteria by that time. Bashing bunnies wasn't my cup of tea. However, they do make kickass polyclonal antibodies when needed.

(its late, you get what you get here...twisted lab humor <grin>)

Lest the mention of bacteria throw you for a loop, let me assure you, sir, that you and I share a remarkable percentage of DNA homology with our microbial buddies. Life has a way of being quite conservative in hording a genetic "good thing" (as Dear Martha would say, were she tuned into microbial genetics instead of foolishly dabbling in the stockmarket).
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:02 PM   #16
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Most smokers start young, so you may been puffing for more than a decade.
Nope. I was only doing evil things like that in the Corps. Funny thing is, after I got out, I never had the urge to smoke OR drink again! In the Marines I was putting down a case every night at the bars with the boys.

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PhD, 25+ yrs research in protein biochemistry, cell and molecular biology, environmental microbial ecology/toxicology. Quite a few professional pubs,
I failed chemistry in college. Shortly thereafter, we all know what happened next.

However, more importantly, you had me at hello.
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:09 PM   #17
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The important questions are:

Have I answered your questions?

Have I made my replies intelligible to you (despite the lack of college chemistry).

By the way, I can provide excellent guidance and tutoring hints should you decide to give it the good ole college try again. I taught it for a while...

<wry smile> I can see that your enthusiasm is unabated from your shout outs.

So it goes.

Edit: this blue dot bs is bugging me. Since I've posted my credentials, can I please get my rank upped a bit. I'm far from being a newbie unknown here....
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:20 PM   #18
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The important questions are:

Have I answered your questions?
I believe you opened a big cans of worry worms in my head . But, like you stated, I'll handle it like a box of live ammo. I'm not like 90% of those others who read a review or two and whip out the plastic like there's no tomorrow. I examine (or try to) every angle, which is why I'm posting now to you. I've been 100% natural to a max of 250 lbs, so I do have some sound judgement. I'll still give it the 'ol college try.

Quote:
Have I made my replies intelligible to you (despite the lack of college chemistry).
Your answers are a lot easier to comprehend than over at Bulk's.

I've only just started to really read through all this (10:13pm). So after I take all this in, I'm sure there might be more questions that only you can answer. I appreciate the help a great deal. I also have a link already to the research you posted at Bulk to gloss over as well.
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:34 PM   #19
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Hypothesis: the rate limiting step to additional sterngth development, improved recovery and increased lean mass...is how well you process and absorb nutrients, and beyond that, the quality and quantity of nutrients consumed.

If you could boost that capacity a mere 10%m, it would substantially outmass the gains expected on AA.

If you could boost it 20%, this tact would outperform the most aggressive steroids and growth enhancers out there..without any of the sides, and with many additional bennies.

But I...can give you 30 or more percent boost in this capacity.

Far more than you can realize by this crapshoot with AA.

Why do you think I'm here?

To find a date? <bark of laughter>

And so it begins.
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:38 PM   #20
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But I...can give you 30 or more percent boost in this capacity.
Mmmm...That sounds tasty. What's the secret?
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