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Supplements discussion on X Factor, within the Bodybuilding Forum; Eric, why do assert that I am challenging you? I assure you, I'm not. No condescending tone was intended in ...


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Old 12-09-2005, 12:03 PM   #31
trouble
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Eric, why do assert that I am challenging you? I assure you, I'm not. No condescending tone was intended in my comment...just a mild curiosity at your humerous (to me) query.

Perhaps it might help if you think of my voice, when you read my posts, as being deep, quiet, almost hyponotic. Absolutely no attempt at domination, one-upsmanship, or aggression. That's not my style at all. I'm very mellow and easy going in person. I can be intense in conversation (verbal and written), but thats an aspect of my enthusiasm for sharing information, by training as an educator and technical specialist.

On the question of microbial (probiotic) supplements:

First, let me preface this discussion with the observation that much of this knowledge is rapidly evolving in the biomedical/nutritional sciences literature.

Second, we need to look at the most overt evidence for our diet type: yes, we have dentation that support both carnivore and vegetarian nutrient sources. However, until recently, it was more energy intensive (and more difficult to store) protein sources than to harvest or collect vegetables, legumes, roots, nuts and seeds as base calorie sources in our diet.

As to the use of microbial supplements -you can try them, but the added microbes won't stick around and multiply if their nutrient needs aren't met and you internal morphology (surface area and membrane morphology) can't support them. We appear to produce docking proteins (this is very new area of nutritional research), under certain signaling conditions, that promote colonization and adherence of these microbes to gut membrane surfaces. We also produce secretions that these microbes require for their function - hence, the commensalistic (when two organisms share an ecological niche and mutually supply necessary nutrients) aspect of our cozy relationship with intestinal flora.

Many of us have gut surfaces that look like tighly woven (low vertical aspect) berber carpets, when they should look like 60s-era shag carpets.

It's a egg and chicken situation. You need both the food type and microbes to signal changes to the gut ...which takes time, gut cell turnover is on the order of weeks to months, and you have to build up substantial mass of villi growth (elongation and radial thickness alterations, along with changes in membrane physiology).

I'm post a couple of web links that describe dietary composition effect on gut absorption capacity and efficiency..and when we can discuss diet modulation to promote positive changes in gut internal structure.

Again, I assure you that I'm not here to show off, impress, or challenge anyone here. I'm here simply to share what I've information I've come accross that I feel is beneficial to the bodybuilding game. In return, I've come here to learn more of the mechanics - the art and science - behind various training techniques.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trouble
No condescending tone was intended in my comment...just a mild curiosity at your humerous (to me) query.
There you go again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trouble
Perhaps it might help if you think of my voice, when you read my posts, as being deep, quiet, almost hyponotic.
As a person who writes for a living (and I assure you that I do, despite the lack of skill that may seem manifest here) I find that humorous. This is not conversation. These are words on a screen. As the writer of those words it is you who conveys the tone by the voice that you choose to write in. Your actual voice has nothing to do with it. It is not my job to imagine your actual voice in conversation. The idea that you would have me do so is pantently absurd.

Whether you intended condescension or not, the way you opened your post conveyed it to me. That is not my failing as a reader. The fact that you found humour in my honest question is your business. That you chose to express that humour could, again, easily be construed as condescension.

Perhaps it would help if you imagined me not as a student in a lecture hall but as a 36 year old man with some education and life experience of his own, and that has little tolerance for being spoken down to.

With that said, I read the rest of your post with interest. And again, I appreciate your willingness to share information with us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237
I've considered those [microbial supplements] in the past but I knew it wouldn't do much good unless one were doing exactly the kinds of things you are talking about here.
I realize that microbials won't stick around if not given the environment to support them. That's why I made that statement. I didn't know the specifics of it. Thanks for that information.

Done hijacking the thread. Bowing out.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:48 PM   #33
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Words on a screen?

This isn't a one-way communication form. Its a two-way format, and thus, constitutes a written dialog between two or more persons.

"Tone of voice" is a function of how you interpret the meaning behind the words and their intent.

I have told you that I did not write those words condescendingly. Your reply suggests you believe otherwise. You miscontrue my intent. You can't say what my intent was, only I can. You can only ascert what you thought my intention was in the wording of the post (which was mild nonaggresive, and sought to provide assurance that I did not intend to offend).

<hands up> Fine. I apologize for my unintended condescending tone.

I am not lecturing here. I am conveying information - at request.

The suggestion of "voice" when you're reading my posts was to convey that I post *atonally*, without emotion except where dirctly indicated, and with no intent other than to impart information.

Should you find my posts offensive, please ignore them.
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:15 PM   #34
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Whew!

0311, I want to apologise to you for muddying up your thread.
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:25 PM   #35
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Ditto.

Sorry for the temporary hijack.

Nor did I intend to dissuade you from taking your AA, 0311.

I'm suggesting that this one area, nutrient absorption / gut adaptation, deserves more consideration for its impact on mass gains. It has received very little attention in sports nutrition...indeed, it receives little real attention in the human nutrition sciences as well (with the odd exception of animal nutrition, perhaps due to feed cost limitations).
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:00 PM   #36
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No worries. The only reason why I opened the thread was to get some feedback/debate/info. My quest is over. Thanks.

I'll post this shit in my journal from here on out anyways in regards to results, ect....;)

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Old 12-17-2005, 05:34 AM   #37
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Reopened...I got my shit three days ago. My legs are sore as shit. Other than that...Nothing new or unusual to report as this time.
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Old 01-03-2006, 05:43 AM   #38
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It's been a day shy of three weeks of my taking 4 pills a day. No headaches or any other problems that some people have. My joints are slightly aching today...My elbows and knees. Mostly my knees. Nothing bad though. I've gained 3.5 lbs. in three weeks which ain't too bad since I haven't had a set in stone schedule or program until last week (Bill Starr's 5x5) due to the holiday's and my gym shutting down. Yesterday was the first time I acknowledged a massive full body pump...All things in my supplement regieme remaining the same. By supplements I mean only the very basics: creatine, protein, BCAA's. I've read that it takes three weeks before any real effects save for the soreness take effect.

Other than that, nothing else new or unusual to report at this time.
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Old 01-03-2006, 11:08 AM   #39
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Glad to hear it, 0311.
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Old 01-05-2006, 06:11 AM   #40
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keep us posted on this 0311.

I am am patiently waiting for your recomendation, i might use this in my next waterbury cycle (post hst). Have you seen any body recomp effects?

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