X Factor
 

Well, Santa Claus came to town and decided to give me an early present (X Factor) I did find a wealth of reviews Here. It's in pdf format, but the results are there. I know Trouble has a lot to say about this product, and I hope she chymes in here with very simple words!

Here's the description:

The crux of this product is that there is a host of things that I must avoid that would hinder the effectiveness of the product:

Pain medications containing acetaminophen, Ibuprofen, or Aspirin
NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs)
Omega 3 fatty acids
Flax and Fish oil supplements
N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC)
Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA)
Avoid the regular consumption of foods known to be high in omega 3 fatty acids or anti-inflammatory nutrients, such as cold-water fish, peanut butter, and sesame, olive or peanut oils.

If you want to read the full description, click Here.

I'll do the 50 days, then that's probably it for me. I say this because I've had great success through the years with the staples: creatine, protein, BCAA's. Hopefully curiosity doesn't kill the cat. ;)

I love when there's patent numbers on the product. Gives me a chance to look up the information and the other patents that are similar.:) Some times my job is actually interesting

just so you know 0311, I'm going to be basing whether or not i use this product solely on your review of it. no pressure :D

I've heard good things, and I cant wait to see what conclusions you come to about it.

The primary action is two fold: by parent compound binding to regulatory genes in brain and certain tissues, and within cells, by action of metabolites (the inflammation inducing kind, so you do not want to outcompete product production by mass overload with omega fatty acids).

Use for very short periods of time - no more than 4-6 weeks.

Use in very low doses adjusted to your body mass (the label recommended doses sound quite high), further digging in the lit is recommended to see what loading rates have been studied for theraputic beneficial effects.

Use with others supps that provide protection against membrane lipid oxidation and help protect liver. Hence, use coezyme q10 and sam-e, with milk thistle, as alternate protection against lipid peroxidation and cellular oxidation from exercise in brain, lung, liver, kidney, skin, and skeletal muscle cells.

Do NOT use if your family has a history of colon or prostate cancer, or has a general history of cancer (esp soft tissue types, like liver, lung, brain, or pancreatic cancers).

Do not use if you smoke, or are cycling on steroids (or have in the last 4-6 months). I would avoid a fatty diet, as this compound will affect fatty acid metabolism in liver, resulting in cholestasis (bile acid buildup) if used for prolonged periods.

I neither condone nor directly recommend against use of this compound. It has beens shown to be important in body mass compositional regulation, but also key for turnover of cells, tissue repair, vascularization of tissues, aging in brain, and cancer metastasis. Its control of biosynthesis and storage and release within cells is as complex as its manyfold actions in the body and brain.

However, be forewarned that should you have certain gene regulatory fuckups that allow cells to express arachidonates on their cell surfaces, and if you develop or have certain small tumors, these will vascularize and migrate from their tissue origin, as this compound is involved in cell tissue adhesion loss (what makes like cell stick together and stay in one place). This is a powerful cell signalling compound that has many, many actions in cells, most recently described in the brain.

Note also that turnover rates refer to unbound parent compound. This is a fat soluble structure that easily partitions into cell membranes and may exert effects for weeks after dosing ceases.

Sorta like swallowing nails to get a little iron in your diet. Risky business.

Be so advised.

The first time I saw an ad for this, my reaction was "What the f***!"

I'll be frank, you couldn't pay me to take this.

There are reasons why the actions of AA in the body are meant to be modulated. Trouble hit on some of them quite well, and yet, I think, was being conservitive. I don't blame her. You could discuss this for weeks before you'd scratch the surface of all the things this stuff does in the body.

If you follow the label advice, I'd think some sides could be expected other than the increased muscle soreness. Maybe some joint soreness. Headaches. Facial flushing (that lasts for hours). Oily skin. Amplified inflammatory reactions in general (something about which I know, having sarcoidosis).

I'm not saying you won't get results. They could be expensive, though, in terms of bodily harm. In any case, don't be overly impressed by the patent numbers.

Yeah, I'd say that about sums it up. I agree. Be wary and cautious, and as you are fond of saying, 0311, May God have mercy on your soul.

And also, good luck, bud.

Can't be any worse than taking steroids, ect. If a one time only 50 day cycle of AA can kill me, then yes, May God have mercy on my soul.

I only wish all those reviews showed time of death! :eek:

I was only being silly, 0311, you know that.

No, I don't think it's gonna kill you, I should have mentioned that :) .

I know you said you were only doing it once. If you're going to lay off the prohibited substances, maybe when your done with it you'll hit the EFA's and stuff heavy. Maybe wouldn't be a bad idea.

The supplements trouble mentioned are definitely something to consider, also. They shouldn't interfere.

Hey now! I didn't take offence to what you said. I value everyone's opinion on this. I should've put a smiley face after that! :)

Definately. 50 days and I'm satisfied.

I'm around 242 lbs. However, I might just use 3 instead of the recommended 4. I'm undecided.

How much do you recommend. I'll take it if you recommend it!

100% natural. Haven't smoked since the Corps.

Thank God I'm the man of steel or else I'd be in for it! 50 days doesn't sound like a lot of time to develop cancer or tumors.

BTW, I'm glad you are here to give some advice Trouble! I appreciate all your scientific advice.

I have some milk thistle in my cabinet right now. I took it when I was on a heavy dose of prednisone for quite a long period of time. I took around 250 mgs 3 times a day. There actually were no changes in my liver values for the duration of treatment, which my doctor was surprised by. I'm not sure if I was on correct dose.

I looked it up in Mosby's handbook and they're giving several different dosage ranges according to what you're using it for (alcoholism, hepatitis). It ranges from 70 mg to 210 mg tid.

What I used was a standardized whole seed extract (standardized to 80% silymarin). The kind that comes in capsule. But many herbalist say you have to use an alcohol tincture. Maybe trouble will have something on this. I guarantee you, most people use the capsules.

It's considered one of the safest herbs out there, but I always point out that you can be allergic to anything. So start out with one dose a day for a few days, then add a dose for a few days, etc. (I didn't though :) ).

"Thank God I'm the man of steel or else I'd be in for it! 50 days doesn't sound like a lot of time to develop cancer or tumors."

Dear Man of Steel,

The average cell turns over pretty slowly. Your DNA does not turnover at all. Therefore, when you fiddle with the controls, who knows when, in your future - or your children's future, since they're going to get an exact copy of your gamete DNA - the effects of this compound will manifest?

Some of your cells never turnover, like your cerebral cortex. Some turn over more quickly, like your liver, whose cells average between 300-500 days, whereas the stomach lining cycles very quickly, every few days, dermal cells every two weeks, and your red blood cells about 120 days.

When they do turnover, you might mentally hold your breath...because one of the actions of this compound is mitotic rate in certain tissues.

So AA binds to a regulatory region, and that regulatory factor....shifts in activity. Nobody can be sure just how it does, but if you're dosing for 50 days, chances are, bunch of cells are going to get that same signal.

So many pathways, so many actions...so little real data on the effects.

It's a Pandora's box of molecular action.

http://www.supercentenarian.com/archive/cells.html

If you read this article, you'll begin to understand this statement:

"Cell turnover in the human body does not adhere to a linear timescale."

Fifty days, 0311, may be just enough....I can't catalog all the reactions that might take place during that ingestion time, of course. Add a couple more weeks for clearance of the membrane soluble fraction. There isn't enough known about this compound to list all of the effects, overt and subtle control shifts....yet.

As to milk thistle dosing: 300 mg, 3x/day for an average bodymass of 185 lbs. Thats for a standardized extract of 70-80% silymarins. Format that has shown to be most readily absorbed is the silmarin extract bound to phosphatidylcholine. In the extract capsule form or bound form, take 30 min before meals for maximum absorption.

For this herb to be effective, you need to begin dosing about two weeks before you start taking that x-factor.

About that smoking. Good thing those highly insoluble coaltars eventually clear out of lung tissue...in a decade or so, depending on the loading rate, whether you used filtered or unfiltered, and the duration of your habit. Been a decade since your time in the Service?

Not trying to be a smart-ass here. As Eric pointed out, I'ved tried to be mild-mannered (clark kentish, even) in my reply.

I like you. I rather not see you taking risks, but if you must, do it as though you're handling a box of live ammunition.

A little humor never hurt anybody. I mean no offense!!

Trust me Trouble, I'm following your recommendations very closely. I was just asking if 50 days is going to kill me or not?

Got out of Iraq/service summer of 2003. Not that long! :)

So we're talking a lot of coin then!

I don't hardly ever post at Bulk where I know you usually frequent, so I understand that you'd think I'm being sarcastic when in fact I'm usually making light of apparently dire situations! :D Damn, tough crowd tonight!

Will now, thanks!

BTW, what do you do for work? I forgot when researching this over at Bulk.

Trust me, 0311, it was I who was trying not to offend by appearing to be rabidly against this product.

My working motto is: "two sides to every coin".

I have posted on the BN forum that there are some remarkable reports in the medical research lit on the various actions of archidonic acid.

But I am quite likely the only one on these forums who has followed most of the history of prostanoid pathway biochemistry and molecular biology - mostly from a distance by reading journals, but also sitting in on live research presentations given by key cyclooxygenase investigators over the years (that would be about two decades). I had the pleasure of knowing one and partying and sitting thru their painful group seminars, at Vanderbilt U a while ago...

I will tell you that the majority of publications on the cyclooxygenase pathway are directed at controlling the effects of the metabolites and understanding the their many actions within the body under disease conditions. They are the basis for substantial R&D expenditure, yearly, by many drug companies throughout the world in the design of agents to block their action as inflammatory factors and more recently, as gene regulatory factors implicated in several common types of cancers (colon, prostate and uterine).

This is the first time I have seen the precursor, arachidonic acid, used as a basic supplement (x-factor).

I need you to know that I am trying my best, despite by exposure history to this body of literature, to provide you a relatively unbiased opinion on this compound's efficacy for the stated purpose (body compositional changes, vascularization).

So you've been an ex-smoker for a relatively short period of time. Most smokers start young, so you may been puffing for more than a decade. We, ahh, won't poke into your private life further. Simply be advised that these coaltars themselves may play a role in gene regulation and cell turnover.

Per the milk thistle: I use vitaminshoppe.com's version, 70 mg, 80% silymarins, 300 caps, 21 bucks (you can watch for coupons specials).

I quoted you the highest dosage, assuming that you'd want maximum protection. You can use lesser, 2 caps, 3x day, which should be sufficient for 50 days. I would purchase a smaller bottle of milk thistle from Wally World (which is also standardized to 80% silymarins, I believe its 120 mg whole extract) to get you started.

What I do isn't the question, its what are my credentials.

PhD, 25+ yrs research in protein biochemistry, cell and molecular biology, environmental microbial ecology/toxicology. Quite a few professional pubs, work in liver and adrenal biochem, worked in a lab that pioneered much of the common knowledge of SR biochemistry in skeletal muscle cell..thank god I had finished with purified mito proteins and worked mostly with bacteria by that time. Bashing bunnies wasn't my cup of tea. However, they do make kickass polyclonal antibodies when needed.

(its late, you get what you get here...twisted lab humor <grin>)

Lest the mention of bacteria throw you for a loop, let me assure you, sir, that you and I share a remarkable percentage of DNA homology with our microbial buddies. Life has a way of being quite conservative in hording a genetic "good thing" (as Dear Martha would say, were she tuned into microbial genetics instead of foolishly dabbling in the stockmarket).

Nope. I was only doing evil things like that in the Corps. Funny thing is, after I got out, I never had the urge to smoke OR drink again! In the Marines I was putting down a case every night at the bars with the boys.

I failed chemistry in college. Shortly thereafter, we all know what happened next. :D

However, more importantly, you had me at hello.

The important questions are:

Have I answered your questions?

Have I made my replies intelligible to you (despite the lack of college chemistry).

By the way, I can provide excellent guidance and tutoring hints should you decide to give it the good ole college try again. I taught it for a while...

<wry smile> I can see that your enthusiasm is unabated from your shout outs.

So it goes.

Edit: this blue dot bs is bugging me. Since I've posted my credentials, can I please get my rank upped a bit. I'm far from being a newbie unknown here....

I believe you opened a big cans of worry worms in my head :). But, like you stated, I'll handle it like a box of live ammo. I'm not like 90% of those others who read a review or two and whip out the plastic like there's no tomorrow. I examine (or try to) every angle, which is why I'm posting now to you. I've been 100% natural to a max of 250 lbs, so I do have some sound judgement. I'll still give it the 'ol college try.

Your answers are a lot easier to comprehend than over at Bulk's.

I've only just started to really read through all this (10:13pm). So after I take all this in, I'm sure there might be more questions that only you can answer. I appreciate the help a great deal. I also have a link already to the research you posted at Bulk to gloss over as well.

Hypothesis: the rate limiting step to additional sterngth development, improved recovery and increased lean mass...is how well you process and absorb nutrients, and beyond that, the quality and quantity of nutrients consumed.

If you could boost that capacity a mere 10%m, it would substantially outmass the gains expected on AA.

If you could boost it 20%, this tact would outperform the most aggressive steroids and growth enhancers out there..without any of the sides, and with many additional bennies.

But I...can give you 30 or more percent boost in this capacity.

Far more than you can realize by this crapshoot with AA.

Why do you think I'm here?

To find a date? <bark of laughter>

And so it begins.

Mmmm...That sounds tasty. What's the secret?

Optimization of your gut morphology. This tissue "tunes" itself, from nearly flat to long finger like projection, fingers (villi) that provide surface area and home to many commensalistic (homey microbes) communities - according to the textural quality, and composition of nutrient inputs.

The bugs are the key to altering gut mophology.

Very, very cool dance of molecular exchanges across the membrane surfaces of the microbes and the surfaces they inhabit.

Our gut microbes, it turns out, have the key to turning on very sophisticated aspects of our immune (recovery and even control some cancers) systems. More importantly, they produce compounds you can't buy as a supplement, and that aren't found in raw food sources. These are key to optimized energy production and metabolic control.

Why, they even impact adipocyte hormone signaling from the brain. Because, of course, the brain needs certain signals for saiety under exercise stress - and when we are both in nutrient excess or shortage.

And that is key to muscle building versus caloric storage in times of excess.

Fine tune, optimize the absorption rates, the microbial population quality (and quantity, since they may increase six fold or more (thats 600%) as the villi lengthen in response to certain foods.

Does this make sense?

Makes perfect sense, but how do I optimize these keys to optimized energy production and metabolic control?

There's no supplement or food source that can do it?

Diet and foods that naturally supply a rich assortment of microbial community members. Membership enrichs in numbers and variety as the guy mophology shifts in response to certain food fibers and nutrient composition.

Its actually quite simple... If you examine the diet of most bbers, you find them taking certain short cuts in nutrient loading.

This variation in diet from a more historically accurate and varied diet, rich in seasonal food types, high in natural vitamins and minerals, and consisting primarily of whole foods in unprocessed forms, induces the most robust morphology and associated microbial population - and properly fine tunes enzyme and digestive factor production, and times food passage thru gut as well.

Again, am I making sense here?

No voodoo chemistry, I promise...

so whole foods in unprocessed forms...

In the right combination, and timing.

The PL crowd has taken a shot at this, and they term it "nutrient timing".

We take it one step further, and talk about nutrient programming.

You can't just throw a massive change in diet at your guy and not pay a price for your haste.

<wry laugh>

You have to finesse the changes.

The closer your current diet to optimized proportions, the less time it takes to push your gut along in performance. Then, matching delivery timing to energy output and other habits (sleep, which we are both now missing) become key.

The better your optimization, the less supplements you need, and the better your performance yield for food and supps dollars spent.

An enticemkent: as in judicious lifting that spares joint wear and tear (and optimized diet can help with joint support), the better your gut - and therefore immune performance - the more years you add to life expectancy beyond the standard statistical value...and, the better the quality of life in later years. In particular - mental performance.

Puritan's Pride has milk thistle in several different mgs. 2 for 1 sale right now.

175 mg: 100/$13.59
200/25.59
400/46.99

250 mg: 100/$17.99
200/32.99

Standardized to 80% silymarins.

Does this sound okay?

It's a perfectly meaningless automatic little blue thingy. I never clicked on it until you started mentioning it. Mine says I'm on a distinguished road. Now, that's laughable. It's just tied to post number and you can bet nobody's taking it as proof of my expertise :) .

I'm telling you things you no doubt already know. But you seem to be concerned about it. So...

Your credentials are impressive. Everybody (even me ;) ) is glad you are here to help.

For a while there we had the reputation points thing, too, when Sleazy updated the bulletin. That doesn't seem to be on anymore, I'm glad to say.

I'm very interested in what you are saying about optimizing gut performance. Especially since you mentioned immunity. I take it you are not advocating microbial supplements like soil based organisms?

I've considered those in the past but I knew it wouldn't do much good unless one were doing exactly the kinds of things you are talking about here.

"I take it you are not advocating microbial supplements like soil based organisms?"

Ah, no. But I'm curious to know where you think our gut microorganisms originate?

Of course they come from soil microcosms, from foods we prepare and ingest. Any gram soil sample contains millions of isolates (the concept of species among microbes is highly contested)

An absence of exposure to nonpathogen microoganisms in our sterile homes, by consumption of highly processed foods, and puritanical use of cleaning products as been identified as one of many reasons for declining immunity among Western nations.

The best means of encouraging retention and growth of a richly varied gut microbial community is by a change in diet towards reduced dependence on prepared foods, and deliberate consumption of wholesome and varied food sources (slower release proteins, carbs, and healthy fats) and yes, the use of certain foods that also serve as concentrated source of the most common types of gut bacteria.

trouble, I may be jumping the gun here. But would it be possible to post an example (beginner) diet in order to achieve this optimazation of gut morphology? I have no doubt that this has merit, but its would be enormously helpful to know how to realisticly go about making this change.

Aggggh! I give up! I surrender.

Read your quote out loud to yourself. Do you hear the condescension?

It was a question. Just a question. Not a challenge.

Let me rephrase it: Should we try microbial supplements?

Can I be any more respectful and direct than that? Yes, I am aware of where our gut microorganisms originate.

Your answer to my question is no. Is that correct? A simple no and a reason thereof would have been sufficient.

Eric, why do assert that I am challenging you? I assure you, I'm not. No condescending tone was intended in my comment...just a mild curiosity at your humerous (to me) query.

Perhaps it might help if you think of my voice, when you read my posts, as being deep, quiet, almost hyponotic. Absolutely no attempt at domination, one-upsmanship, or aggression. That's not my style at all. I'm very mellow and easy going in person. I can be intense in conversation (verbal and written), but thats an aspect of my enthusiasm for sharing information, by training as an educator and technical specialist.

On the question of microbial (probiotic) supplements:

First, let me preface this discussion with the observation that much of this knowledge is rapidly evolving in the biomedical/nutritional sciences literature.

Second, we need to look at the most overt evidence for our diet type: yes, we have dentation that support both carnivore and vegetarian nutrient sources. However, until recently, it was more energy intensive (and more difficult to store) protein sources than to harvest or collect vegetables, legumes, roots, nuts and seeds as base calorie sources in our diet.

As to the use of microbial supplements -you can try them, but the added microbes won't stick around and multiply if their nutrient needs aren't met and you internal morphology (surface area and membrane morphology) can't support them. We appear to produce docking proteins (this is very new area of nutritional research), under certain signaling conditions, that promote colonization and adherence of these microbes to gut membrane surfaces. We also produce secretions that these microbes require for their function - hence, the commensalistic (when two organisms share an ecological niche and mutually supply necessary nutrients) aspect of our cozy relationship with intestinal flora.

Many of us have gut surfaces that look like tighly woven (low vertical aspect) berber carpets, when they should look like 60s-era shag carpets.

It's a egg and chicken situation. You need both the food type and microbes to signal changes to the gut ...which takes time, gut cell turnover is on the order of weeks to months, and you have to build up substantial mass of villi growth (elongation and radial thickness alterations, along with changes in membrane physiology).

I'm post a couple of web links that describe dietary composition effect on gut absorption capacity and efficiency..and when we can discuss diet modulation to promote positive changes in gut internal structure.

Again, I assure you that I'm not here to show off, impress, or challenge anyone here. I'm here simply to share what I've information I've come accross that I feel is beneficial to the bodybuilding game. In return, I've come here to learn more of the mechanics - the art and science - behind various training techniques.

There you go again.

As a person who writes for a living (and I assure you that I do, despite the lack of skill that may seem manifest here) I find that humorous. This is not conversation. These are words on a screen. As the writer of those words it is you who conveys the tone by the voice that you choose to write in. Your actual voice has nothing to do with it. It is not my job to imagine your actual voice in conversation. The idea that you would have me do so is pantently absurd.

Whether you intended condescension or not, the way you opened your post conveyed it to me. That is not my failing as a reader. The fact that you found humour in my honest question is your business. That you chose to express that humour could, again, easily be construed as condescension.

Perhaps it would help if you imagined me not as a student in a lecture hall but as a 36 year old man with some education and life experience of his own, and that has little tolerance for being spoken down to.

With that said, I read the rest of your post with interest. And again, I appreciate your willingness to share information with us.

I realize that microbials won't stick around if not given the environment to support them. That's why I made that statement. I didn't know the specifics of it. Thanks for that information.

Done hijacking the thread. Bowing out.

Words on a screen?

This isn't a one-way communication form. Its a two-way format, and thus, constitutes a written dialog between two or more persons.

"Tone of voice" is a function of how you interpret the meaning behind the words and their intent.

I have told you that I did not write those words condescendingly. Your reply suggests you believe otherwise. You miscontrue my intent. You can't say what my intent was, only I can. You can only ascert what you thought my intention was in the wording of the post (which was mild nonaggresive, and sought to provide assurance that I did not intend to offend).

<hands up> Fine. I apologize for my unintended condescending tone.

I am not lecturing here. I am conveying information - at request.

The suggestion of "voice" when you're reading my posts was to convey that I post *atonally*, without emotion except where dirctly indicated, and with no intent other than to impart information.

Should you find my posts offensive, please ignore them.

Whew!

0311, I want to apologise to you for muddying up your thread.

Ditto.

Sorry for the temporary hijack.

Nor did I intend to dissuade you from taking your AA, 0311.

I'm suggesting that this one area, nutrient absorption / gut adaptation, deserves more consideration for its impact on mass gains. It has received very little attention in sports nutrition...indeed, it receives little real attention in the human nutrition sciences as well (with the odd exception of animal nutrition, perhaps due to feed cost limitations).

No worries. The only reason why I opened the thread was to get some feedback/debate/info. My quest is over. Thanks.

I'll post this shit in my journal from here on out anyways in regards to results, ect....;)

Reopened...I got my shit three days ago. My legs are sore as shit. Other than that...Nothing new or unusual to report as this time.

It's been a day shy of three weeks of my taking 4 pills a day. No headaches or any other problems that some people have. My joints are slightly aching today...My elbows and knees. Mostly my knees. Nothing bad though. I've gained 3.5 lbs. in three weeks which ain't too bad since I haven't had a set in stone schedule or program until last week (Bill Starr's 5x5) due to the holiday's and my gym shutting down. Yesterday was the first time I acknowledged a massive full body pump...All things in my supplement regieme remaining the same. By supplements I mean only the very basics: creatine, protein, BCAA's. I've read that it takes three weeks before any real effects save for the soreness take effect.

Other than that, nothing else new or unusual to report at this time.

Glad to hear it, 0311.

keep us posted on this 0311.

I am am patiently waiting for your recomendation, i might use this in my next waterbury cycle (post hst). Have you seen any body recomp effects?