Back routine question

[imthefin]

Maybe you guys have a better idea for me. My back routine consists of
Deadlift - 5x5
Seated cable rows - 3 sets, 10, 8, 6
Cable pulldowns - 3 sets, 10, 8, 6
Bentover rows - 5x5
Shrugs - 3 sets, 10, 8, 6
Hyperextensions (good mornings) - 3 sets of 20
Widegrip pullups - 5 sets, 10, 8, 6
Well thats all of it. Am I doing too much? Seated rows are close grip, and the pulldowns are wide grip. Should I incorporate a close grip pull down? After my workout my back feels awesome, but I feel like my lats are lacking.
Any comments or critiques are more than welcome.

[Darkhorse]

After my workout my back feels awesome

Does that mean you are seeing results? If your lats are lacking after the megaton of exercises you do, then it's either shitty form or not enough quality reps. By quality I mean pulling the weight hard (dynamically), then slowly letting the weight back up/down.

Hyperextensions (good mornings) - 3 sets of 20

Two different exercises. I assume you mean hyperextentions. If your back can actually handle doing 5 sets of deadlifts, 5 more sets of rows, + hypers, then you're a better man than I! Too much.

I think you're doing too much. You must remember that every one of those exercises are all working the same muscles. For example: Back Thickness->
You have 5 sets of deadlifts, 3 sets of cable rows, and 5 more sets of bent over rows....All of which do the same thing.

I also assume that you're doing one muscle per week, right? If that's the case, then I would recommend something a little more like this:

-Pullups: 5+ sets all to failure, OR, whatever it takes to get to 50.
-Barbell Rows: 5x5
-Pullovers: 3x10
-Barbell Shrugs: 3x8-12
-Hyperext: 2x10 (this one is optional, not really needed)

What you can do is to rotate out deadlifts with barbell rows every other week. Week 1 (rows), week 2 (deads), ect. The idea still applies that less is more! Each week your goal should be weight increases. By doing less, as prescribed above, you are allowing yourself to lift with more intensity instead of subconsiously trying to save some of your strength to finish the volume.

[Darkhorse]

Another idea you can toy around with is using frequency to bring up that bodypart that's lagging. Assuming you have a one muscle a week frequency, (hopefully with that amount of volume), then I would do 2-3 sets of pullups before each training session as a good way to warmup. For example, before you start lifting legs, do a few sets of pullups. Say you lift 5 days a week, as another example. If you were to do 2 sets of pullups before each training session (not including back day), that's 8 sets of additional pullups.

[Darkhorse]

You may also want to consider trying something like this, which will bring up your lats....I would hope!

[imthefin]

As for results, yes I am seeing results. But like you mentioned above 0311 thats alot of exercises. I'm just trying to avoid doing a ton of work when I can get it done in half that. The whole less is more concept. As for feeling great, I meant that I feel that the workout was great and got a good burn..etc. I work 2 muscle groups a day every other day. I've been reading everyones journals and I'm almost positive that I need to redo my routine.

[Eric3237]

Originally Posted by imthefin

I'm just trying to avoid doing a ton of work when I can get it done in half that. The whole less is more concept.

Wise, you are.

Sounds like you're satisfied with the results but sense that you could be more efficient. Nothing like doing long, protracted workouts on one body part to get results only to find out that other people are getting the same results with what seems like half the work.

You may be ready to embrace 0311's suggestion of more frequency and just redesign your whole routine to incorporate more frequent work for every body part.

If not, then definitely cut down along the lines that he suggested. Adding the pullovers is a good idea. At least it's something slightly different. Pullovers also are good torso builders and engage the chest, the serratus, the intercostals, and abs, as well as the lats. If you want to engage the lats more fully with a pullover type movement, however, you'll want to something like a straight arm cable pulldown rather than a bench style pullover with a barbell or something.

Further, along the lines of the Gymnast's Back Routine, in my own experience, I feel like the most efficient back workout I ever got was playing around on a pair on gymnast's rings. It wasn't even anything organized, I just messed around for a while trying to do things I'd seen gymnasts do, completetely random, and afterwords my back (my whole upper body to some extent) felt blasted like never before. I've actually considered trying some type of organized rings routine. I think it would be better than a stable bar.

[imthefin]

Yea, I went over all my routines today. And cut alot out. I was just killing myself at the gym, and was there way too long. I tried my revamped leg workout today, and felt that I had a better quality workout, plus I was in and out in an hour and half. But thats including stretching, 25 min cardio, BS with one of my bosses and of course the workout. Thanks for the help 0311, Fri. is back day so I'll try out your suggestions on exercises, and you too Eric. I read that gymnasts routine and sounds interesting...we'll see how Fri goes.

[Darkhorse]

Glad to help. You might also consider looking into my old Max-OT journal, which prides itself on 30-40 minutes gym time! If you prefer hitting two muscles per day like chest/tris, ect., then just make sure to give yourself plenty of days off.

Max-OT Journal

Max-OT website

[Eric3237]

I just read Chad Waterbury's article "The High Frequency Secret" and realized he mentions gymnasts training on the rings as an example. If you've read it, that's not where I got the idea for the ring's thing! I really did get a good workout on the rings .

[naturalpro]

I like alternating a "Core" week with an "Intensity" week.

Sample:

Week 1:
Deadlifts: 5x5,5,5,5,2
Reverse Grip Weighted Chins: 2x5
BB Rows: 2x6

Week 2:
Hammer Grip Pullups: 3x6
Hammer Strength Rows: 2x10
Behind Back Shrugs: 2x15
Reverse Grip Cable Rows:2x8
DB Rows:Rest/Pause Style - 1x10-12, 3-4, 2-4, 1-3, 2, 1 to failure