chalk/straps for deadlift???

[Eric3237]

Yes, but that is the reality of grip for most. That is why I recommend supplemental grip work. If he goes to under-over most of the time...sure that will keep that from happening in the sort term. Most people find their grip failing like this....EVEN if they use over-under all the time. I don't think you are average in that respect. But if your grip sometimes fails then I don't find it logical to stop doing the thing that trains your grip as often as possible as long as you don't let that limit you. Which is why I brought up when to switch and not at the last moment.

I don't claim the grip will never fail. But that is the reality with whatever you choose to do. I understand you don't have that problem. At least not yet. But a lot of guys can't even hold onto their bodyweight for pullups. I'm talking 185 pound dudes not 300.

[Darkhorse]

I understand you don't have that problem. At least not yet.

Lol, unless I'm deadlifting 650, which I'm just over 100 pounds at this point, yet is a scary thought.. Whether its heavier rack deads, conventional with sets of 7-12, ect it's completely raw over under. But I'm sure I must be the exception to the rule. But that pretty much ties into what I was trying to say.. I don't use straps for 99% of what I do. Deadlifts come but once every two weeks for me. My grip gets plenty of work w/ the heavy weight I do for everything else. So, it depends on what kind of training people are doing. If it's limited without too much chance for working grips or if they're deficient, then go ahead and get it in deadlifting. For those of us who train like I do, and are far from being deficient, then don't be afraid to be lazy like me.

If I'm doing deadlifting and double it for 1-3 reps with the over over w/ 300 lbs, I feel I get more work doing some sets of 5 reps for weighted pullups w/ 40 lbs strapped to my 250 lb fatass. Or a 270 lb pulldown for 16 rest paused. That's the only point I'm trying to make..

[Eric3237]

LOL, bro, you'd think you are the only one who trains heavy and often around here. . No, but I know what you mean. There is no way I could try to come up with some kind of statitistic about how grip works for guys who train heavy (i.e. those who are not "bodybuilders only" per se) but from what I have gathered, yes, I'd say you weren't typical in that regard.

I don't use straps for anything. I hold onto pullups with up to 100 pound plates strapped on. I do more pulling than anything else. In fact I probably do more rowing and at lower reps than most anybody here. And I pretty much live to deadlift so everything I do is centered on that. YET, with all that holding on to stuff it's still not enough for me to always be ahead of the curve on grip. I have to supplement it.

We both know nothing is definite and really, everything is an individual case, but I feel fairly confident from what I've observed from various vistas that my case is pretty typical (as far as needing specific grip work) and that I actually have a BETTER grip than average. When you see 165 pound dudes who can't do 5 pullups without straps....they aint gonna make it to 500 deadlift without supplemental grip training or without straps. So that's what I'm basing things on.

If Rob came on and said a bunch of specific things about his grip history, etc that differed from all that I'd happily backtrack.

[Darkhorse]

LOL, bro, you'd think you are the only one who trains heavy and often around here.

That's completely unnecessary bro, and a good reason for the frequency of my posting going elsewhere. I'm sure you must have a video camera to treat sometime in the future.

My point was that you keep implying that someday my grip would fail since I don't train like you do, but the fact of the matter is that it hasn't, and won't. Again, what works for you doesn't mean it's black and white. Well, I'm glad I got rid of my journal as well since I don't want numbers, pictures, and vids giving people the wrong idea.. And the only reason I put pullups in there was to show you that the weight from THOSE in leau of everything else works my grip vs. doing a double over with 315 deadlifting. You missed the point.

[Darkhorse]

We can only try to give advice using OURSELVES as the standard. If I see myself having a strong grip with nothing but an over under, then I'll shell out advice in leau of that. You see yourself in another light, so you'll say the contrary.

I don't use straps for anything. I hold onto pullups with up to 100 pound plates strapped on.

We're the same in that regard. When I do pullups, I'm lifting cosmetically w/ long extended TUT, but I'm sure I could hang like tarzan w/ the 100's as well. I'd post a vid, but I don't want people thinking I'm a braggard either. The point is different strokes for different folks.. We BOTH have a strong grip from two COMPLETELY different training points of view. But the way I took things, Rob does DFST if I'm not mistaken, and has AMPLE opportunity for getting a strong grip.. Should he take your advice over mine or visa versa? Who cares really, if he continues getting stronger, then I don't see that it matters either way.

[MONSTAFACE]

dont mean to butt in on the posting, but Rob just in case you are looking to just work on some grip strength i was using this for a bit and it help me quite fast.

http://www6.mailordercentral.com/iro...sp?number=1254

im pretty sure you can get another gripper from anywhere. but this is the one i have used. and its heavy, durable, etc.

i dont know much about chalk and straps an di dont know the root of yoru problem but from my experience i feel like i have always had a strong grip and i just used it because i try stuff to see how it works. when i used it i notice a difference rather fast. i used it in between sets of pushup, military press, bench etc. from what i understand you shouldnt go crazy with it because you may runn the risk of over training.


F.Y.I i posted that link in another forum, but i posted it again because know it helps with grip strength through my own personal experience

[TALO]

LOL, bro, you'd think you are the only one who trains heavy and often around here.

What about me?!

[Darkhorse]

I can see where this is going so I'm locking the thread for now.. I'm sure Eric will unlock it and say what he's going to say which is fine too. Or a pm I don't care..

[Eric3237]

Teach me to disagree.

I'll tell you what, anyone who wants to disagree with me, though, go ahead and do so. That way I can subject my views to scrutiny. This helps me learn. I will try and back up anything I say, which is all I was doing in this thread.

I actually wanted Rob to be helped by this thread, not to "win".

I'm not going to base every bit of advice I give on reflected knowledge whether from myself or from anything else. I'm going to continue to give advice the way I see fit and base it on as broad a knowledge base as possilbe. Which includes what I've noticed about other's I've helped and a general knowledge base as well. Most of the things I discuss I've had experience with. If I have had no experience whatsoever with a subject I usually don't tackle it at all.

If I'd had a chance before these latest little diggs against myself I would have mentioned that I didn't want to sound like I, myself, stuggle constantly with grip. Most of the time, it's not a problem. I think from what I said it may sound like a much bigger deal but it's pretty much a thing where grip fails every once in a while and I have to do some extra grip work and then I'm ok for a while....but for the most part all the various holding on and the over-over for everything but the heaviest does the trick. As far as me goes.

I gotta say I am really utterly sick of people reading more into what I say then what I actually say. Everyone is taking things I say way to personally sometimes and I really don't want to have to walk on eggshells. I am not passive agrresive. There is no "between the lines". I give advice based on my experience and knowledge and I am not going to apologize for doing that. If I disagree I will say so becasue two different people saying the opposite thing with no discussion doesn't help anybody. It just forces them to choose whoever they thing the biggest 'guru' is. And that is part of what is wrong with this industry when it comes to the net.