dynamic row

[Eric3237]

^^^^Yes one could only hope.

I've looked for rows videos that suit my taste on rows but honestly I can't find a thing that I don't nitpick something or other. One of the symptoms of this is when you do see someone doing "regular" rows they tend to be doing them super slow hence the pre-occupation with this "dynamic" row stuff. When it comes to training for strength there are few instances where you would intentionally move the bar (at least the positive) very slowly and even with "regular" rows I do them very powerfully and dynamic...I just don't use momentum from lower body or back movement or upper back flexion.

One of the common ways of instructing rows is simply to get in the row position and "pull the bar up". Then "pinch the shoulder blades together" at the end. So what this amounts to is a glorified barbell curl followed by a scapular pinch. Instead of inventing new rows it may be useful to teach a basic row technique correctly in the first place.

Here is my take on it and this is the premise by which I work whether it be barbell, dumbell, cable or whatever. Starting with the actual performance and not getting into positioning.

1. Start with the implement fully extended allowing the scapula to "protract" or track forward allowing a little, but not a greatly exaggerated, stretch. You should not allow such a stretch that the shoulders are allowed to be pulled forward out of their sockets. They should be maintained under tight control. This is scapular portraction only.

The lower back is maintained in a neutral, natural and tight, arch at all times. Likewise the thoracic area is maintained and you do not flex forward at the thoracic spine do not "bend" at the upper or mid-back).

2. Initiate the movement with a powerful retraction of the scapular muscles. The whole movement is the action of bring the scapula together, spreading the chest and bringing the shoulders back. At the full extent of the motion the scapula should be pinched together as much as possible, and the upper back tightly arched. There is very little bicep in this when done correctly and it is a very powerful and quick pull.

3. Go back to the starting positon under control.

Every once in a while you may be bringing in a bit of lower back to get a hard rep done and in the more advanced stages of training you'll probably have more of this. But mostly concentrate on doing it strictly. I can do it this way from the floor or otherwise since I have the flexibility.

Since probably 70% (I guess) of my training is posterior chain in general I see absolutely no reason to use rows to traing the posterior chain or the 'lower back' as far as the back flexion method you sometimes see goes. Likewise I would point out that if your back is healthy then the reason "regular" rows become hard on the back is a lack of local musular endurance. I might also point out that when in comes to msot of the big lower body stuff you do, local muscular enduarnce in the lower back is what you NEED. Your back helps to keep you in a stabile position during those things which is a function of endurance not moving you up and down.

On the other hand if my back is give out I simply switch to another row where lumbar endurance is not an issue. It is all integrated and I am always moving forward in some way. If someone wants to call anything other than barbell rows "easy" rows I will simply point to the above thing about most of my training being posterior chain oriented in some fashion including strength and endurance work for the lower back when necessary. I don't worry about my lower back, my hips, my hams, or any of that in regards to rows since that is covered. And if I did want to do and explosive movement like I was saying above in that regard, I do high pulls (i like to do them instead of pc's but you get the picture).

Almost guaranteed more than the person who brings up the 'easy' row bs . Rows are mid and upper back training for me and this is what has always ended up being the best for me. Other than that they are for shoulder girdle health, another very important reason why I use variety. I will never go back to the constanct pain and setbacks of chronic shoulder problems.

And that is my take on rows. Anything else I have tried has either been a way to screw up my back or waste my time.

[Pitysister]

i like this one.

You Tube

that's what mine tend to look like only the bar really connects with my upper abs....and everything remains quiet except for the arms. really works the mid/upper back for me...generally always feel it the next day.

[Eric3237]

It's good. I think that's that friend of IK's from before. The only thing is I feel like she could lighten up and be able to drive the barbell up a bit more. Also, she maybe could bring her torso us just a tad bit in order to get a little more passive scapular portraction..that way she will be able to get more power into it, I think. But as far as a barbell row, it's a good one and basically what I described. Anyone would do well to emulate it but of course there is always room for improvement in anything. I wouldn't mind seeing just a little more of a pause at the top to make sure she has those scapula pinched tightly at the end.

On the thing you said about everything being quiet but the arms, although I know what you meant, I think it is important to point out to people that the scapula are not quiet and that is the main point of the movement. Otherwise people will just curl the bar and that, actually, IS how most people row.

But I don't know why it should be called 'pendlay' row. It's a barbell row off the floor. Woop te doo.



When I'm doing fullbody I like to do heavy dumbell press and lunge combos. With dumbells in the overhead press ready position, you do a lunge. At the bottom position of the lunge you overhead press the dumbell, then you complete the lunge while holding the bells in the overhead position. Lower the bells and repeat. Brutal and effective. And fun. I didn't invent them but now that I've described them everyone should henceforth call them "Eric Lunges".

[Pitysister]

that could be next weeks' exercise of the week....just be sure to make a video of it, so we can see exactly how to do it

[Eric3237]

I'm too busy. I have to work on graduating to the 2 1/2 pound weight for that row.

[iron_worker]

In that vid you see her upper torso move a few inches. She maintains her arch but her whole torse moves...is that acceptable? Thats one of the things I've been struggling with. Also it seems as if her shoulders are slightly ahead of the bar (looking from the side) it could be the camera angle, I'm not sure. I'm so full of questions on this exercise.

[Riddick2112]

imo it is not really possible to do a heavy dynamic type row without the torso moving a bit. Dorian Yates used to say barbell rows are not a "pretty" exercise and there will be some upper torso movement when you start going heavy and i agree with him. I think the only thing lacking in that girls video is she might try pausing a bit at the top as Eric said, just to get a stronger contraction and keep the mind "in" the back, not the arms, but it's a good row and she looks good doing it too

I'm actually gonna start doing these tomorrow, having done T-bar rows for almost a year now.

[Eric3237]

I agree except for heavy being relative. If you are pulling 200 pounds at one point lower back in it and then later on you pull 250 with back in it then it is not because it is heavy it is because you always pull that way. Some people do that on purpose, of course.

The question, to me, IW is not whether it is ok in general or sometimes but whether it is OK for YOU. My answer to that is no.

However we have people coming from completely different mindsets. My advice is based on my opinion of what a row is good for, others on different opinions. In other words there are fundamental differrences in philosophy at work and as long as that exists you are not going to get any consistent answers.

For me, yes, sometimes, when you are at your heaviest it is ok to get some back in it. But not all the time or most of the time and certainly not while learing the lift.

For me if you are still learing and becoming comfortable with it, but can't get the bar up without compensating with lower back, then it's plain too heavy. You do not have to flop around to do a row "dynamically". But it's one of those illogical things, for me.

Most of the time if someone wants to do something as 'explosive' as possible they don't mix that with "the heaviest possible weight". The more you get to the max strength end of things the slower the velocity. Even an olympic lifter, if he wants to be at his/her speediest is not going to be going at it at 100%.

I'm repeating myself. Maybe I should ask why so many except they can barely do 3 or 4 pullups slow as hell but insist on being able to row 300 pounds "explosively".

[iron_worker]

Originally Posted by Eric3237

I'm repeating myself. Maybe I should ask why so many except they can barely do 3 or 4 pullups slow as hell but insist on being able to row 300 pounds "explosively".

Lol, Toucher salesman.

Now that I think about it, I haven't really been doing this exercise very dynamically at all. Its been more of a static style lift (if that is what they call it) for me. I think I'm going to just have to man up and throw my ego aside when I do rows. Drop some weight and do the reps right. Well, I have some work to do I guess....

So pullups improvement should also lead to row improvement?

IronWorker

[Eric3237]

Well static would be not moving at all. So I guess 'slow' would be the word you're looking for...at least I hope so

So pullups improvement should also lead to row improvement?

I'm going to go pull out my hair now .

They won't hurt but pullups we'll definitely lead to pullup improvement. Since when did rows become and end unto themselves?