German Volume Training vs. 5x5 Training - Bodybuilding Discussion on Bodybuilding.net Training Forum

_Wolf_ · 08-09-2005, 08:37 AM

hi...

i am a beginner (i have been working ouy regularly; 6 days a week) for the last 1 year and 4 months).

i want to change my workout routine.

i need to get some muscle mass. i dont want cuts right now.

my body fat percentage used to be 32.3% when i began working out. Now, 1 year 4 months later, its 18.2%.

I never went on a diet, nor did i do light weights: only heavy. I even overtrained for a month by mistake - but when i realized it i changed my routine.

I bench press 180 lbs, dead lift 250 lbs, do smith machine squats with 250 lbs and i am 17 years old. also my height is 5feet 7inches.

can someone please tell

me whether German Volume Training is better or the 5x5 Training program if i want to become strong and gain mass at the same time.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Darkhorse · 08-09-2005, 08:59 AM

I think both have their place for mass. It seems to me that you prefer heavy weight like you said so that's more towards 5x5. GVT is a high-volume light-weight training system that focuses mainly on "strength-endurance" or fatigue. Here's a break down that might help:

GVT:
-low intensity
-high volume
-lighter weight
-typically start with 60% or so of your 1 rep max
-strength endurance training accompanied by some hypertrophy
-10 sets of 10 reps
-uses somewhat of a progressive overload meaning if you hit all 10x10, increase by 5%
-very big drain on the cns (central nervous system), so frequency is once a week per each muscle group.
-geared for Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy- occurs with an accumulation of intercellular
fluid and non contractile proteins, which do not influence muscle force production.

Things I don't like (IMO of course)
-boring workout
-possible muscle imbalances
-possibility of muscle tears (slightly higher than average)
-once a week frequency
-viciously sore
-rumored loss of strength (makes sense)

Things I like:
-some people's supposed results
-very different than every other program
-lighter weight for a change
-won't need a spotter until the tail end of sets 8-10.

Cont...

Darkhorse · 08-09-2005, 09:14 AM

5 X 5 has many different kinds of workouts. Each one has it's place I suppose. I'm doing a variation of the routine Bill Starr wrote way back in the 70's. It's been VERY productive so far. However, there are also one's that work each muscle once a week too. Everyone I know has gotten results from every kind. I can't do a big writeup like GVT because there's too many versions out there. But in a nutshell:

-has alot more hypertrophy than GVT
-geared also for great strength gains
-progressive overload is the best thing it has going
-(the one I use works each muscle 2-3 times a week) that's 156 growth cycles a year vs. 52 per year-one muscle a day)

GVT is a program that should be done once, maybe twice a year tops. To me it looks like something that'll give someone a good break away from heavy lifting and helps to add on additional muscle someone might not have gotten staying on their current programs. 5x5 is something that can be done in cycles over and over again if planned just right. (refer to post: DFT in the training forum to see.) I don't recommend you doing the exact program I'm on because duel factor IMO is for bodybuilder's who have been in the game for quite some time and who really know their abilities.

I really think you should give GVT a go and post your journal here. I'm not sure on the length of the GVT cycle, but I could find out for you. I imagine it'll be 1-2 months, and if you don't like it, you could always move on to a 5x5 variation.

_Wolf_ · 08-09-2005, 10:04 AM

thanks a lot ppl.

i actually have thought up of an amazing workout for the next 8 weeks - it involves both heavy and light weights. it is almost like the 5x5 workout but not quite so. i don hav time right now to post it here, but i will do so before sunday - with my results - i plan on starting tomorrow. thanks a lot for the positive feedback.

boostaddctn · 08-19-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0311

...
-very big drain on the cns (central nervous system), so frequency is once a week per each muscle group.

Cont...

Hi, I just started this GVT and seem to like it so far, but I was wondering what do you mean by "FREQUENCY" ?? thanks, aight peace

BG5150 · 08-20-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostaddctn

Hi, I just started this GVT and seem to like it so far, but I was wondering what do you mean by "FREQUENCY" ?? thanks, aight peace

That means that your are working each muscle group primarily once a week, as opposed to the 5x5 which works the core parts heavy once and light twice a week.

Darkhorse · 08-20-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostaddctn

Hi, I just started this GVT and seem to like it so far, but I was wondering what do you mean by "FREQUENCY" ?? thanks, aight peace

I'm actually glad someone is giving it a try. You should post a journal or at least keep us updated as to your progress. It is very tempting to do a program that doesn't require a considerable amount of weight. ;)

BradG said it. Freq. is nothing more than the amount of times you hit each muscle inside a week directly.

_Wolf_ · 09-15-2008, 08:27 PM

DH, I am very fascinated with all these new features and I am reading some of my old threads...

I wish I had listened to your advice at the time to do 5x5......I did however do HST and it was awesome

08-09-2005, 08:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
_Wolf_ Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas Posts: 3,832 Gender:	German Volume Training vs. 5x5 Training hi... i am a beginner (i have been working ouy regularly; 6 days a week) for the last 1 year and 4 months). i want to change my workout routine. i need to get some muscle mass. i dont want cuts right now. my body fat percentage used to be 32.3% when i began working out. Now, 1 year 4 months later, its 18.2%. I never went on a diet, nor did i do light weights: only heavy. I even overtrained for a month by mistake - but when i realized it i changed my routine. I bench press 180 lbs, dead lift 250 lbs, do smith machine squats with 250 lbs and i am 17 years old. also my height is 5feet 7inches. can someone please tell me whether German Volume Training is better or the 5x5 Training program if i want to become strong and gain mass at the same time. Thanks a lot in advance.

08-09-2005, 08:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
Darkhorse Moderator Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CA Posts: 4,106 Country: Gender:	I think both have their place for mass. It seems to me that you prefer heavy weight like you said so that's more towards 5x5. GVT is a high-volume light-weight training system that focuses mainly on "strength-endurance" or fatigue. Here's a break down that might help: GVT: -low intensity -high volume -lighter weight -typically start with 60% or so of your 1 rep max -strength endurance training accompanied by some hypertrophy -10 sets of 10 reps -uses somewhat of a progressive overload meaning if you hit all 10x10, increase by 5% -very big drain on the cns (central nervous system), so frequency is once a week per each muscle group. -geared for Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy- occurs with an accumulation of intercellular fluid and non contractile proteins, which do not influence muscle force production. Things I don't like (IMO of course) -boring workout -possible muscle imbalances -possibility of muscle tears (slightly higher than average) -once a week frequency -viciously sore -rumored loss of strength (makes sense) Things I like: -some people's supposed results -very different than every other program -lighter weight for a change -won't need a spotter until the tail end of sets 8-10. Cont...
	Darkhorse's Sig:"The greater the development and strength of the main muscular structures of the body, the greater the size and strength potential of the small areas of the body." - Stuart McRobert Orange County Strength Club

08-09-2005, 09:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
Darkhorse Moderator Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CA Posts: 4,106 Country: Gender:	5 X 5 has many different kinds of workouts. Each one has it's place I suppose. I'm doing a variation of the routine Bill Starr wrote way back in the 70's. It's been VERY productive so far. However, there are also one's that work each muscle once a week too. Everyone I know has gotten results from every kind. I can't do a big writeup like GVT because there's too many versions out there. But in a nutshell: -has alot more hypertrophy than GVT -geared also for great strength gains -progressive overload is the best thing it has going -(the one I use works each muscle 2-3 times a week) that's 156 growth cycles a year vs. 52 per year-one muscle a day) GVT is a program that should be done once, maybe twice a year tops. To me it looks like something that'll give someone a good break away from heavy lifting and helps to add on additional muscle someone might not have gotten staying on their current programs. 5x5 is something that can be done in cycles over and over again if planned just right. (refer to post: DFT in the training forum to see.) I don't recommend you doing the exact program I'm on because duel factor IMO is for bodybuilder's who have been in the game for quite some time and who really know their abilities. I really think you should give GVT a go and post your journal here. I'm not sure on the length of the GVT cycle, but I could find out for you. I imagine it'll be 1-2 months, and if you don't like it, you could always move on to a 5x5 variation.
	Darkhorse's Sig:"The greater the development and strength of the main muscular structures of the body, the greater the size and strength potential of the small areas of the body." - Stuart McRobert Orange County Strength Club

09-15-2008, 08:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
_Wolf_ Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas Posts: 3,832 Gender:	DH, I am very fascinated with all these new features and I am reading some of my old threads... I wish I had listened to your advice at the time to do 5x5......I did however do HST and it was awesome
	_Wolf_'s Sig:Training Log APT Pro Wrist Straps

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08-09-2005, 10:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
_Wolf_ Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 3-5 Years Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas Posts: 3,832 Gender:	thanks a lot ppl. i actually have thought up of an amazing workout for the next 8 weeks - it involves both heavy and light weights. it is almost like the 5x5 workout but not quite so. i don hav time right now to post it here, but i will do so before sunday - with my results - i plan on starting tomorrow. thanks a lot for the positive feedback.

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