HST startup...few questions

[red92gt]

After doing some research on different methods of lifting with muscle mass/hypertrophy as the ultimate goal, it seems like a good idea to give HST a try. Being that I'm still a beginner, I've got a few questions that hopefully can get answered. I'll just list them off:
-On 2x10 sets, how long should the rest period be?
-What is a good way to do the abs? I have been using the negative incline bench with two 35lb weights stacked on my chest, but I can do a lot more than 2x10 with that, and it's hard to stack bigger (45lb) or more (3x35's) weights, so perhaps there's a better way to do abs?
-The rest are mainly definitions of specific exercises and how to do them. Those would be
.stiff leg deads
.rows
.shoulder press
.lat raises
.rear delts


http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html
There's one of the links I'm working off of. Thanks in advance for the advice/help, any other thoughts are also appreciated.

[Kane]

Originally Posted by red92gt

-On 2x10 sets, how long should the rest period be?

There is no reason to get hung up on rest between sets. Everyone seems to think there is a magic number. Rest until you can do the next set successfully. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by red92gt

-What is a good way to do the abs? I have been using the negative incline bench with two 35lb weights stacked on my chest, but I can do a lot more than 2x10 with that, and it's hard to stack bigger (45lb) or more (3x35's) weights, so perhaps there's a better way to do abs?

Use a machine, raise the angle on the decline, do kneeling cable pulldowns

Originally Posted by red92gt

-The rest are mainly definitions of specific exercises and how to do them. Those would be
.stiff leg deads
.rows
.shoulder press
.lat raises
.rear delts

.stiff leg deads- Deads with stiff legs...keep your legs straight, no leg movement
.rows- Barbell rows...you shouldn't have to ask what these are
.shoulder press...this one is even more obvious, barbell or dumbbell overhead press
.lat raises...arms at sides, raise them up til theyre parallel with ground
.rear delts...same rom as a flye but bending over so it recruits back

you can google search these or even look on this forum.

Originally Posted by red92gt

any other thoughts are also appreciated.

Why aren't you going with a strength program? HST is not the routine to be doing at this stage in the game. I gave you advice before about Rippetoe's program and IMO I've been giving you good advice for almost every one of your posts...yet your posts and attitude don't change much. Are you going to listen to advice from people with more experience? Because I won't be spending my time writing out these responses if they're just going to be turned into toilet paper.

[TALO]

Originally Posted by red92gt

.stiff leg deads
.rows
.shoulder press
.lat raises
.rear delts

SLD's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REcrvQXhHkQ

rows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SQ8BvY1_40

Shoulder Press(DB)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgyGjgV1ZeI

Lat Raises
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5QyfuWwzaA

Rear Delts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlDW9yGWvGk


These are some ways to do those exercises. But not the only way.

[red92gt]

Kane
first of all, I want to thank you again for all of the time and effort you've put into helping the noob (me) with all of the questions, etc. I've had. You've been a bigger help than anyone else, and I appreciate it greatly. I don't want it to come across as me discrediting anything you say, or not listening, etc. When I ask about different things it's because I want to make sure I'm not leaving anything out and/or missing a better method of doing things. As far as your question, I was looking into the HST program because from what I saw, Rippetoe's is more all out strength oriented, and the HST was more geared towards general size increase, which is more of my goal for now. If this is wrong somehow (perhaps it's better to start with a strength program first, or something else?) Then I'd absolutely like to hear why and what the best method is at this point in the game. As far as attitude, I'm not exactly sure what you mean but I hope I'm not coming across wrong, which seems to be the case. Sorry for any misunderstanding, but once again I appreciate the help, and what you've been saying is a big influence on the decisions I'm making. So to wrap up, as far as the Rippetoe's vs. HST thing, would there be a reason that it would be bad/not as efficient to start with HST instead, even though the ultimate goal is hypertrophy?

[Eric3237]

I'm going to go ahead and jump in here so that Kane doesn't have to do everything, lol. Just to let you know if it seems like Kane is the one mostly helping you it's most likely because everyone looking at it feels he's giving you the real deal and there is simply not much more to say.

On starting with strength vs. hypertrophy, first of all, the Rippletoe is NOT just a strength program. Truth is if it was there would be more of an emphasis on top sets rather than sets accross. As it is, it is designed to address both issues very well for beginners. Different people will get differing amounts of mass from it but mass WILL come.

However, regardless of mass there is a VERY good reason to get a good strength foundation before you start looking at "mass" programs. It is simply that the more weight you are putting up the more success you will have at those mass programs. A strength program will address neural efficiency very quickly and that is one of the primary strength adaptations, allowing you to genearate intenstiy a lot closer to your genetic postential and therfore making the mass program a much better stimulus for growth.

Another thing is this business about mass vs. hypertrophy is way over indulged. The so-called "strength" programs that Kane has mentioned will make you big AND strong. Look at it this way: except for a very few genetically "different" individuals, you can't put a couple hundred pounds on your primary lifts, like squat, deadlift, bench (and others) and not be a whole lot more massive. That mas may not all be the esthetic mass of a pro bodybuilder but all that is a whole lot easier to address once you have the base.

Strength and Hypertrophy: Not So Different by Madcow

[_Wolf_]

ok this may be off topic, but i would go about planning an hst cycle very differently.

if anyone wants to know and if the OP is still interested let me know...i know i helped some dude on bb.com do this hst plan a few months ago but unfirtunately i dunno his name...

ps: eric: u should link that to madcow's post...

[Eric3237]

ps: eric: u should link that to madcow's post...

Why? I think I summed it up pretty nicely.

Just kidding, good idea

[_Wolf_]

^^^ no, i know...but u know how poeple are...unless someone famous says something it is never listened too....dont ask me: i just had a brilliant war with some 13 year old brat on bb.com.....fucking jungle...

[Kane]

Eric hit the nail on the head.

I referred to the program as a strength program because compared to HST, OVT or similar mass programs, you'll gain way more strength. I fully agree with the point that with strength comes mass, I'm just using strength and mass as slang for the programs.

My ultimate goal is also hypertrophy and I've gone through some of the 5x5s and seen as much mass as HST or OVT. Just so you don't think anyone is bullshitting (jk)

As far as attitude, I'm not exactly sure what you mean but I hope I'm not coming across wrong, which seems to be the case. Sorry for any misunderstanding, but once again I appreciate the help, and what you've been saying is a big influence on the decisions I'm making.

From my point of view, I see a post about a routine, I give my 2 cents and everyone seems to be in agreement...then I see a post saying that you're going to disregard the previous advice and do something else. So what am I suppose to think you thought about the advice I gave? I understand where you're coming from with the "hypertrophy is my ultimate goal, why do soemthing geared towards getting stronger?" but it gets frustrating sometimes. Anyway, no worries man...we're cool.

[Eric3237]

Originally Posted by Kane

I fully agree with the point that with strength comes mass, I'm just using strength and mass as slang for the programs.

BTW, I knew what you meant and I was speaking to Red's idea that he wouldn't gain mass, specifically, and not to anything you said. It's kinda funny when you think about how people have this separatist view of strength versus mass. For me, the fact is, MOST of my mass has come from "strength" programs. Volume just never did it for me in the past. Now that may be different no but I dont care about mass as much as strength anymore and training for strength and getting the look that comes from it is too damn fun!