Periodization, rep ranges

[Musclehead24]

I know its important to keep the body guessing so that muscle gains don't come to a hault, but I was wondering how much I have to change things in order to keep the body guessing. Is changing the set and rep range enough? For example if I train chest one week doing 4X5 then 3X8 and finally 2X15 week 3 and start the cycle again week four is that enough? Or will the body adapt to this too? The only other thing I can think of doing is using dumbells instead of a barbell, but I rather not change exercises because I would like to continue using heavy compound movements.

[TALO]

I know what your saying, but I don't know the answer. However I do know that I have done the 5*5 program for 8 weeks straight with the same basic exercises ie:bench,squat,deadlift,rows. And continued to see improvements.

[Scorcher2005]

What program are you on?

[Musclehead24]

Originally Posted by Scorcher2005

What program are you on?

Im not on any program. I want to put my own routine together. Upper/Lower

Mon: Upper
Tues: Lower
Wed: Rest
Thurs: Upper
Fri: Lower

I'm looking for size, but I think I should be changing the rep ranges to keep the body guessing.

[Scorcher2005]

You should probably follow a tried and proven program...

[hrdgain81]

If you want size, look into HST. It resembles what you already have down as far as changing rep ranges, albeit inverse.

this way you arent constantly guessing about what to do next, its all laid out in front of you.

[ChinPieceDave667]

I agree with all the above. Also DFHT is something you might want to check out. It's pretty much what your doing, upper/lower, but I would check it out to get a good idea of what you might want to add or take away from your upper/lower.

[EricT]

Originally Posted by Musclehead

I'm looking for size, but I think I should be changing the rep ranges to keep the body guessing.

You don't need to do that. Variety for variety's sake is useless. To keep the body guessing is not why people periodize, it's just what clueless people say to sound smart. If they gave you a simple prescription based on your needs, they wouldn't appear as knowledgable. There may be reasons for certain people to change rep ranges in some linear fashion at some point in their training but that is not it. Personally I think linear peridization sucks even for what it's meant to do. But some people find it works for them.

You know that story (Roman, I think) about the guy who gets this bull calf and carries it up a hill every day. As the bull grows and grows, the guy continues carrying it up day after day. Once the bull is full grown the guy is like hercules or something. I forget his name. But hopefully you get the point, it's fantasy and myth, but even back then people instinctually knew how the body adapts.

The "shock the muscle" theory probably has it's popularity due to the widespread epedemic of attention deficit disorder. Some people just can't stick to a plan . Things take time. Don't expect miracles. If you're not Ronnie Coleman in two weeks it doesn't mean the answer is to change your rep range. Usually progress stops because the trainee fucks it up, not because the body is confused as to what it is supposed to be doing.

Personally I hate any program that starts out complicated and in order to have it keep being productive you have to further and further complicate it. That's my problem with HST. But you'd be much better off with that rather than just doing some random rep ranges for a completely invalid reason.

Keep things as simple as they can be and still result in progress. Only complicate them when more complexity becomes necessary.

[Musclehead24]

Originally Posted by Eric3237

You don't need to do that. Variety for variety's sake is useless. To keep the body guessing is not why people periodize, it's just what clueless people say to sound smart. If they gave you a simple prescription based on your needs, they wouldn't appear as knowledgable. There may be reasons for certain people to change rep ranges in some linear fashion at some point in their training but that is not it. Personally I think linear peridization sucks even for what it's meant to do. But some people find it works for them.

You know that story (Roman, I think) about the guy who gets this bull calf and carries it up a hill every day. As the bull grows and grows, the guy continues carrying it up day after day. Once the bull is full grown the guy is like hercules or something. I forget his name. But hopefully you get the point, it's fantasy and myth, but even back then people instinctually knew how the body adapts.

The "shock the muscle" theory probably has it's popularity due to the widespread epedemic of attention deficit disorder. Some people just can't stick to a plan . Things take time. Don't expect miracles. If you're not Ronnie Coleman in two weeks it doesn't mean the answer is to change your rep range. Usually progress stops because the trainee fucks it up, not because the body is confused as to what it is supposed to be doing.

Personally I hate any program that starts out complicated and in order to have it keep being productive you have to further and further complicate it. That's my problem with HST. But you'd be much better off with that rather than just doing some random rep ranges for a completely invalid reason.

Keep things as simple as they can be and still result in progress. Only complicate them when more complexity becomes necessary.

I agree, I rather just do basic lifts, eat and grow. I don't want to follow any specific program. With an upper/lower split I was thinking about doing something like this...

Mon:
Bench Press
Bent Over Rows
Military Press
Shrugs
Barbell Curl

Tues:
Squats
Calve Raises
Abs

Thursday:
Incline Bench
Deadlifts
Pull-Ups
Close Grip Press

Friday:
Leg Press
Calve Raises
Abs

I want to keep it simple and train the entire body twice per week. I will train heavy and close to failure, but not complete failure. I was concerned about the rep range because I don't want to burn out. So should I just keep the reps between 5-7?

P.S. I dont know if this has any barring, but I'm not a beginner. I've been training for about 4 years on and off and I've made some good gains. Over the years I've trained a lot of different ways so I can't pinpoint and say what has worked best for me. Now I just want a good routine I can follow and make good gains.

[EricT]

I would do deadlifts on the last lower body day. You shouldn't have any problems putting it there.

Whether and when you burn out depends on what kind of weight you're putting up. So it's really your traning experience. However, keep in mind that when I said it's not necessary to "shock the muscles" I meant the idea of switching rep ranges every other week or something.

On an upper lower you could certainly do a different rep range for the two uppers and lowers. So one could be "heavy" and one lighter. A lot of people do lower reps one workout and higher reps the next. You would want to be more concerned with increasing the load on the lower rep days. The best thing to do is try it and see what kind of progress you make. If you make progress for say three weeks but then start having trouble you don't have to scrap it, you can just adjust it.

For instance, a lot of people think that if they do higher reps on the one day that automatically constitutes a "light" day. Certainly the weight is lighter. But if you are working to near failure then it is technically a heavy day. It's just heavyness of a different character. Lowering the reps a few would more constitute lightness in that case. That is not to say you can't work heavy every day. At least for a while.