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10-21-2007, 06:57 PM
| #11 (permalink) |
| Rank: Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 91
|   Too dam funny man.Yeah, I do squat and deads on the same day. It's intense, but I don't think I would be able to deadlift more weight if I didn't squat that day. Does that make sense? Plus that routine is straight from Rip's SS book, so it can't be that bad. Then again, if I knew anything, I wouldn't be asking questions. lol There's no way I've stumped the guru's around here. Would anyone like to enlighten this curious soul? Please  |
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10-21-2007, 07:01 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Rank: Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 91
| Oh, and I just wanted to clarify incase I was confusing in my post. I am not looking for a way to increase my raw bench. I have no desire to change from the routine I am doing as I'm very happy with the results. This is just a simple question from a simple board member. lol |
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10-24-2007, 06:01 AM
| #15 (permalink) |
| Moderator Rank: Heavyweight Experience: 7-10 Years Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,028
Country: 
Gender:  | Anybody who feels comfortable recommending SS to people should feel comfortable anwering this question. Since it seems like there are a whole lot of people recommending SS to every beginner who comes there should be plenty of answers forthcoming. I'm waiting too |
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10-24-2007, 07:47 AM
| #16 (permalink) |
| Rank: Member Experience: 1-2 Years  Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston
Posts: 219
 | Hey, I just saw this thread for the first time, weird. I would probably recommend SS for a beginner - and often do actually - so thanks to Eric, I feel guilt-bound to answer this one ;-) Having done SS for a couple of months way back, I remember wanting to do deads and squats every time too, figuring that more lifting -> more hypertrophy -> more/faster/bigger gains. But I tried it for a while and basically found that I was tearing myself down too much to be back up and going 48 hours later. If I was lifting as heavy as I could for those 3x5/1x5 on both exercises 3 times a week eventually I'd be so worn down that I'd be forced to miss lifts because I wasn't recovered. Referencing the stickies, this seems relevant: "Getting excited about your training and killing yourself in the gym only to burn out and few weeks later and miss a bunch of sessions ends up being 1 step forward, 3/4 steps backward for many trainees. Getting and staying consistent and racking up sustainable gains over the long-term is what it’s about." I was pumped to lift heavy every time all the time but ended up just killing myself like as described. So I backed off and took it slower. On a more technical level I think it has to do with the kind of CNS overtraining described in this article (same thread as that quote): http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...ertraining.asp I found in my experience that it was better to follow Rip's program, which annoyingly did sometimes mean I only deadlifted once a week, and just get used to lifting with way more intensity but making gains at a slower, more consistent pace. I feel like I'm missing something if nobody responded to this thread, but that's my take on why you would want to keep the a/b scheduling for SS. Sorry I didn't notice this thread earlier, been a busy week. |
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10-24-2007, 08:17 AM
| #17 (permalink) | ||
| Rank: Light Heavyweight Experience: 3-5 Years  Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Trinity University, San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 3,297
Gender:  | Quote:
ur first question is why is the squat done 3x a week. The squat is supposed to provide the greatest amount of hormone secretion. That is why it must be done 3x a week. It also involves most of the muscles of the body in comparison to the bench and row. however, the deadlift is the most neurologically draining exercises of the 5 which is why its frequency is 1x a week (for beginners its 2x every alternate week because they can recover faster). the squat is the next best "big bang" exercise after the deadlift. thats why its done 3x a week. now, if u are referring to why is it necessary to increase the weight every session, then my answer is: u dont. when i did Starting Strength i was well past my beginner stage so i had to stagger my progress. This is how i used to progress: ("W1" means Workout 1) W1 = 200 W2 = 210 W3 = 200 W4 = 215 W5 = 205 W6 = 220 W7 = 200 W8 = 225 W9 = 210 W10 = 230 etc its staggered progression. it worked for me because i didnt have 2.5 lbs plates (i used kilos) and i already had a good squat max. ur next question is Quote:
however, the goal of SS is to increase ur strength. It thus depends on ur recovery. therefore, if u did all 5 exercises 3x a week, for how long would u be able to progress? not very long and u will most likely over-reach in 2-3 weeks tops. ur key exercises are the bench, squat and deadlift. now, other secondary exercises are the press and rows. here's why they're important: Press: there is this theory (which i strongly believe in) that if ur overhead pressing power increases u will be able to be stronger on the bench press. this is because the press (when done right) is like working the bottom part of the bench press which is where most raw lifters have their sticking point. Rows: these are great for the bench press because ur back muscles are hit more directly and the carry over onto ur bench press should be quite good. also, they help the deadlift a bit too (read up Charles Poliquin's articles somewhere on t-nation about this). now, you can arrange these exercises in any fashion. i dont quite agree with the SS template because that was a mere example. the true purpose of the template is to teach u how to select a few big bang exercises and use them in the most optimal way to progress. So, for example, if ur exercise selection involved: 1.) Squat 2.) Bench 3.) Deadlift 4.) Front Squat 5.) Press 6.) Row 7.) Pull-ups 8.) Glute Ham Raises here is how i would plan my entire week: Monday Squat 3x5 Press 3x5 Deadlift 1x5 Glute Ham Raises 2x6-8 Wednesday Front Squat 3x5 Bench Press 3x5 Rows 3x5 Friday Squat 3x5 Press 3x5 Pull-ups 4x failure and then the next week u could have bench press on mondays and fridays and the press on wednesday and then repeat. i just put the press at 2x frequency because i love the press more than the bench press haha. back to ur question: no, u dont need to do just 5 exercises to begin with and even if u had to do just 5 u cant do them in 1 single workout because then u would have to eat and sleep so much in order to recover for the next workout and yet continue to progress. and this isnt possible in the real world. also, another way u can plan ur program is this: Exercises: 1.) Squat 2.) Bench 3.) Press 4.) Deadlift 5.) Rows 6.) Pull-ups 7.) Glute Ham Raises please note: i love the press so this is done in favour of that: Monday Squat 3x5 Bench Press 3x5 Rows 3x5 Glute Ham Raises 3-4x6-10 Wednesday Squat 3x5 @ 50% of monday's load Press 3x5 Deadlift 1x5 Friday Squat 3x5 Press 3x5 @ 80% of wednesday's load Pull-ups 4x failure there are countless ways u can make ur program as long as u have planned progression. well, i hope ive answered ur question. here, let me sum it all up: 1.) you squat 3x a week because its one of those big bang exercises and the only other exercise with a bigger bang than the squat is the deadlift but that is also the most neurologically draining exercise so u cannot do it 3x a week. therefore the only exercise left is the squat. other exercises do exist which are better than the squat but they are all oly lifts. 2.) u do not do 5 exercises 3x a week because u will not be able to progress because u will not be able to recover. 3.) starting strength is not a set-in-stone program. it is a mere template which is supposed to be changed and manipulated to fit the trainees goals. Eric, is this an ok answer? :( somehow i feel as if im going to get ripped apart....shit. | ||
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10-24-2007, 03:33 PM
| #20 (permalink) | |
| Rank: Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 91
| Quote:
Sentinel, I believe the above quote from your post perfectly answers every question I had. I'm still using the SS template because I'm only 12 weeks into my training which easily makes me a beginner, plus I think I've been getting good results from it so far. I have been thinking about dropping the midweek squat weight a few pounds to help with recovery as I think I'm reaching a stalling point right now. I guess the thing that had me thinking was the fact that using the A,B,A,B schedule, I'm only benching and deadlifting every 4 or 5 days. That just seemed like a long time, but I need to remember that this is a beginners program, and I should use it for as long as I can continue to progress and improve my technique. I do have 2 more questions though about the squat now. 1) If I drop the midweek squat weight, should I increase the reps? 2) I believe I have a grade 1 groin strain. I have a pain in the adductor muscles in my right leg that I feel about 1 foot from the top of the squat. I can go down fine, but just before I complete the upward motion, I feel a little pain. It's not excruciating, but I can't imagine it's good. Should a take a break from squatting? I tried wrapping the area with an ace bandage tonight, but it's a very difficult spot to get good pressure on. I'd hate to miss out on squats since I don't know how bad it is, or how long it will take to fully heal. I know how important squatting is, so how should I handle this. And don't say go to a doctor, that's for sissies! lol | |
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