question regarding deadlift and squats

[Kane]

I answered his questions via a PM he sent me. But just to re-iterate what I said (paraphrased due to laziness ):

-The output required for a 5x5 is much higher than that for a 3x12
-Splits tend to stray into higher volume ("more is better") which is wrong
-There is alot of synergy with full body days. ie. Shoulders being worked on bench and rows even though they aren't direct shoulder movements (to name one)
-Much easier to progress with full body routines (5x5, 3x5, etc)

I recommend the rippetoe's starting strength (3x5) (same as Rabid Rabbit is doing)

[EricT]

Yeah. BTW Phil is doing a good job with it too:

http://www.bodybuilding.net/personal...rnal-4976.html

[ph0bia.]

You know I just want to say this and it might rub you off the wrong way.

Almost NO ONE in my gym follows a full-body routine. All the big guys are on body-splits. It just makes me doubt the effectiveness of such programs. Not that my split has done anything for me but I err... I think you get what I mean.

I want to start a full-body routine. I just need to know why I'm doing something instead of something else

[ghij_mpu]

Originally Posted by ph0bia.

Almost NO ONE in my gym follows a full-body routine.

That's a good thing. No waiting for the squat rack.

[Kane]

Originally Posted by ph0bia.

Almost NO ONE in my gym follows a full-body routine. All the big guys are on body-splits. It just makes me doubt the effectiveness of such programs.

This is where things get confusing. Those big guys in the gym are doing some serious weight (hopefully ), probably somewhere around a 350 squat, 400 dead and upwards of 300+ on bench. When you've reached this point in your training (or when on gear) a split can be effective. But a split isn't effective until you're lifting some serious weight. Those numbers probably aren't even high enough for a split either, maybe even add 100lbs to everything.

A guy I go to school with has been training for 5 years, doing a split since day 1. I've been training for about 3yrs (doing full body for over 2 of those 3 yrs). Here's the tale of the tape:

Bench
Him: 290x3 Me: 275x1

Squat
Him: 155x3 Me: 285x5

Deadlift
Him: 225x3 Me:365x3

He spent all his time doing 4x10-12 for about 4-5 exercises per muscle (even bi's and tri's).

SO which program wins? (He's on NO Xplode BTW )


ps. Shit I knew someone else was doing Ripp's program but I couldn't find the journal!

[ph0bia.]

I think I get the idea. A 5x5 or a 3x5 program is designed to work on your mass and strength more than a split because of the intensity.

I remember a coach at my gym telling me that unless I go heavy on the bench I wouldn't see "a big chest." I think he nailed it. The aim is to go heavy and with a 3x5 program I have better chances to do that since I've tried Rippetoe's routine before and I did see some great strength gains sans the mass because my diet wasn't good.

This time around I plan to do cardio, abs and some bicep work. I'll hopefully create a journal soon.

[EricT]

You gotta realize that a whole lot of strength can come without mass at first (or at least without apparent mass). And stopping a program because you get fat doesn't make sense. It's not like going to a high rep split is going to spot burn.

You wan't results you need to stick with it come hell or high water. For as long as you progress. If you do it right you can progress a good long time.

[widdoes2504]

I agree. You need to stick with a plan regardless of what happens. A 5x5 routine or 3x5 will do a much better job of getting strength and mass over a split routine. Good luck on meeting your goals.