question regarding deadlift and squats

[ph0bia.]

I have lower back pain at the moment. I want to know if I should de-load, rest for a while or continue with it?

I'll post my routine and maybe you guys can suggest something. The back problem has started just recently and I've tried using a belt, it's helped but not completely.

I'm following a split which looks something like this:

Chest & Biceps
Back & Cardio
Cardio
Shoulders
Legs
Rest
Cardio

Back exercises include:

Front pulldown (3x12)
Bent-over row (3x12)
Dumbell bent-over row (3x12)
Seated high row (3x12)
Cable seated row (3x12)
Deadlift (4x12) - 20 kgs (excluding the bar)

Legs:
Seated leg curl - 3x12
Back squats - 5 sets (weights are excluding the bar)
1x12 - 10 kgs
1x12 - 20 kgs
1x12 - 30 kgs
1x6-8 - 40 kgs
1x6-8 - 40 kgs
Hack squat - 3x12
Leg press - 3x12
Leg extension - 3x12
Donkey Calf Raise - 3x12

I concentrate more on the deadlift and the squats on these two particular days and they exhaust me the most. Should I:

1. de-load on these two exercises?
2. keep the same weight and try reaching 12 reps on the last set?
3. go heavy on deadlift and squats every alternate week? (week 1: heavy squats/week 2: heavy deadlifts)

Thanks.

P.S: the exercises listed are the exactly in the order I do them

[Kane]

Originally Posted by ph0bia.

I have lower back pain at the moment. I want to know if I should de-load, rest for a while or continue with it?

Bent-over row (3x12)
Dumbell bent-over row (3x12)
Seated high row (3x12)
Cable seated row (3x12)
Deadlift (4x12) - 20 kgs (excluding the bar)

You're killing your back. No wonder its sore. You've got 12 sets of rows and THEN Deadlifts. Deadlifts at that kind of set/rep range aren't doing anything for you. Doing a 5x5 for deads would produce much better results and take alot less time since your doing 23 fewer reps!

I wouldn't "deload" from those two. I would throw out your split and move to a full-body routine. If you're squatting 40kgs and deadlifting 20kgs there is no way a split is efficient.

[ph0bia.]

Originally Posted by Kane

I wouldn't "deload" from those two. I would throw out your split and move to a full-body routine. If you're squatting 40kgs and deadlifting 20kgs there is no way a split is efficient.

ummm... could you please elaborate on that? A 5x5 for my deadlift alone?

[Kane]

Get a whole new routine. The high volume splits are a waste of time. Right now a full body based routine would be best.

You shouldn't be doing deads passed 8 reps IMO, after that it defeats the purpose and its easier to get injured. What I was getting at is that doing a 5x5 for deads is much better than doing a 4x12 for deads. The deadlift is supposed to be one of your heaviest lifts, if not the heaviest, and doing it for 12 reps really diminishes your ability to lift those heavy weights.

Search the site for Rippetoe's starting strength, thats the kind of program you want to be running, 3 days a week and within the 5 rep range.

[ph0bia.]

So I should follow the same back routine but just do 5x5 of deadlift... at the same weight for each set? Obviously that way I can go heavier with fewer reps. Also, what if I do the deadlift the first thing on my back day, will that help?

Should I keep the Squats unchanged?

Originally Posted by Kane

Get a whole new routine. The high volume splits are a waste of time. Right now a full body based routine would be best.

Some have suggested a 5x5. You're suggesting me Rippetoe's 3x5.

[hrdgain81]

Back exercises include:

Front pulldown (3x12)
Bent-over row (3x12)
Dumbell bent-over row (3x12)
Seated high row (3x12)
Cable seated row (3x12)
Deadlift (4x12) - 20 kgs (excluding the bar)

Legs:
Seated leg curl - 3x12
Back squats - 5 sets (weights are excluding the bar)
1x12 - 10 kgs
1x12 - 20 kgs
1x12 - 30 kgs
1x6-8 - 40 kgs
1x6-8 - 40 kgs
Hack squat - 3x12
Leg press - 3x12
Leg extension - 3x12
Donkey Calf Raise - 3x12

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What are your goals? If your looking for strength/Mass this is not the way to do it. Listen to Kane, a 5x5 with a slow progression is the breast way to gain IMO.

I guess if your trying to cut some bodyfat, and you didnt have much time between sets you could use this for glycogen depleation, but that isnt doing much good otherwise.

[ph0bia.]

Yes I'm looking for mass. I weigh 78 kgs with 10% bodyfat. When I started this program 3 months ago, I was at 18%.

Could you give me an exact link to the 5x5 routine. 'Coz some links talk about the normal split routine with the big lifts (Squats, Bench Press, Deadlift, BB Row, Military Press) included, being done as 5x5. While, some talk just about those big lifts done 5x5.

I don't mind making positive changes to my routine. Just want to know the exact details, since I'm a newbie and I'm doing all this on my own

[Kane]

Rippetoe's program: http://www.bodybuilding.net/personal...etoe#post27454

RabidRabbit is doing it now, his journal is a good template to follow.

There are other 5x5's out there too, Bill Starr's, Needsize's, many variations...but I think Rippetoe's is best for right now.

I have a journal for a Dual Factor 5x5 routine and its very similar to the layout (as far as exercises, reps and sets go) of Rippetoe's. You're always dabbling in the 5x5 or 3x5 range with the same BIG exercises (Squats, Deads, Bench)

[ph0bia.]

I'll read up on Rippetoe's and other programs you suggested. In the meanwhile can you tell me why you think a split is not a good program when compared to a full routine?

[ph0bia.]

Need to correct my weights. Posted the wrong weights.

Deadlift (4x12) - 40 kgs (excluding the bar)

Back squats - 5 sets (weights are excluding the bar)
1x12 - 20 kgs
1x12 - 40 kgs
1x12 - 60 kgs
1x6-8 - 80 kgs
1x6-8 - 80 kgs