Squat vs. Deadlift

[Septooth]

I have read articles that said the Squat and Deadlift are no different. What is the difference between the Deadlift and Squat? Can you accomplish the same thing as a Deadlift doing a Squat with a slightly different stance? The reason I ask is the Deadlift is too much on my back. But I can do the Squats with Dumbells to my sides. So in this program can I substitute the Deadlift with a different exercise with a leg machine or something?

Exercise Sets x Reps Details

Monday
Squat 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups



Wednesday
Squat 4x5 First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
Incline or Military 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups



Friday
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

[Septooth]

Im not sure If i get the whole ramping idea on the Bill Starr 5x5 Linear Version for Intermediate Lifters above. These are my maxes...

Bench 1x5 - 165
Row 1x5 - 145
Squat 1x5 - 100

Bench 1 rep max - 192
Row 1 rep max - 158
Squat 1 rep max - 116

With those numbers can someone explain how I should work that program?

[markdk86]

Ok. I'm going to repeat this the same way Madcow does.

DO NOT FUCK WITH THIS PROGRAM

Deadlifts and squats don't use exactly the same muscle. Do them both. One is push one is pull, thats enough difference in itself.

[Darkhorse]

Squat and deadlift are two totally different things. Some people use the deadlift in place of the squat sometimes, but I sure as shit wouldn't! I view deadlifts as a BACK exercise, which also happens to work your hamstrings as an extra benefit.

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* If it is your first week, you'd start off undershooting your rep maxes so you don't burn out too early..

Monday:

- Squat: 30x5, 40x5, 50x5, 60x5, 70x5
- Bench: 105x5, 115x5, 125x5, 135x5, 145x5
- Rows: 85x5, 95x5, 105x5, 115x5, 125x5

Wednesday:

- Squat: 30x5, 40x5, 50x5, 50x5
- Standing Military Press: ??
- Deadlift: ??

Friday:

- Squat: 30x5, 40x5, 50x5, 60x5, 72x3, 50x8
- Bench: 105x5, 115x5, 125x5, 135x5, 149x3, 125x8
- Rows: 85x5, 95x5, 105x5, 115x5, 128x3, 105x8

Pretty simple plugging in numbers. Nothing hard about this...

[Septooth]

Originally Posted by Septooth

So in this program can I substitute the Deadlift with a different exercise with a leg machine or something?

Ok, Im gonna quote myself here. I understand now what the difference with the Deadlift and Squat are. My problem is I am new at weightlifting,have low back problems and I am afraid to Deadlift and have wrong form and makes things worse. So what I am looking for is another way to Deadlift untill I strengthen my low back muscles and learn proper form, and still be able to work my Low Back and Hamstrings. Ok, I know the Squat will not do it because it works the Quads and not the Low Back and Hamstrings but what about Back Extensions on a hyperextension bench? That works the Low Back and Hamstrings and I dont have to worry about form so much and I can increase weight beargripping weights. What ya think?

[Darkhorse]

Keep the deadlift and learn how to do it. If you keep the weight lowered, I don't see a problem. We also have a "How to Deadlift" article in the training articles forum.

Remember that even though you are "new", we all were, yet none of us ended up with back problems from deadlifting.

[EricT]

Coming from someone with fairly significant low back problems...

There are thearapeutic things you can do for you back but doing and of course you are going to want to strengthen your lower back but doing any other movements for any length of time is not suddenly going to make your proficient on the deadlift. If you want good form you have to learn good form even if that mean you start out with only the bar.

But let me tell you...I deadlift a shitload now but I've never progressed without form following. I've always adhered to that. Deadlift doesn't agravate my back as such as long as I concetrate. It is other things that do it. Bent over rows have a much better chance, for instance. Other variations of the deadlift also.

Here's my little speal on deadlift. It is not a spinal erector dominant execise and so is not really a "back exercise" as far as that. You entire back gets the hell worked out of it but as soon as your lower back is actually "doing" the lift you've fucked it up. I know some people dl like that all the time. But you want see them doing it when their my age .

It is a hip-flexor dominant exercise, imo. That means if you do it right the hams, the glutes (I feel it big time in the ass) and the erectors must work in concert to pull it off. No one muscle shoulders the entire load but the entire posterior chain. If you learn to do it correctly it actually becomes a lot safer for you lower back than some of the other common exercises we do.

[Septooth]

Ok guys, thanks. I will do that. Ill just work on my form and start out light and work my way up. Thanks for the advise guys.

[EricT]

You'll be fine. And this is allowing you to start out light and also you're ramping up with those warm up sets so you won't be overwhelmed with volume. I would advise since your just learning it to not even worry about you max and just pick a really light weight. Also keep in mind that you max needs to be "how much I can do with good form." For most guys it "how much can I do no matter what it takes"

[BigMal]

Here is a good site I found which has very detailed descriptions about various excercises w/ video.

Below is the link directly to the deadlift.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BDeadlift.html